Pine clarification

wiggs · Post by **wiggs** » January 28th, 2020, 6:06 pm

Hi All,

Just wondering if someone can verify this pine, my best guess is a Japanese Red Pine?

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shibui · Post by **shibui** » January 29th, 2020, 5:27 am

Those buds do look like red pine buds but there are a number of factors that can confuse the ID.
Black and red pines are known to hybridize when planted near each other and that has become a problem in Japan as both species are planted in parks and gardens in parts of the country they previously did not grow. We've had regular reports of seedlings that appear to have characteristics of both species over the last 20 years or so.
Buds alone are not a definitive factor to ID. If the only choice is between Japanese Black and Japanese Red pine then this is most almost certainly red as JBP has larger white buds but there are many other species of pine. Many of them are related to, and share characteristics with, each other. There are probably a number of pine species that have similar reddish new buds.

JRP tends to have softer needles in pairs. JBP needles are quite thick and stiff.
JRP has reddish new buds and candles. JBP has white buds and candles.
On older trees bark is thick with deep furrows and is darker black on JBP. Mature bark on JRP is flaky so does not tend to get as thick or dark.

Both species are grown and maintained using the same techniques so actual ID is not so critical.

wiggs · Post by **wiggs** » January 29th, 2020, 6:13 am

Morning, appreciate the information always love to learn.

Definately softer needles then the JBP’s I have.

Also was just watering the plants and took these if this helps?

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shibui · Post by **shibui** » January 29th, 2020, 11:43 am

That bark also looks good for JRP so I'd go with that for an ID until someone questions it.

wiggs · Post by **wiggs** » January 29th, 2020, 7:13 pm

Thanks again appreciate it.

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MJL · Post by **MJL** » January 30th, 2020, 6:18 am

Hey WIggs,
Red Pine seem a little harder to come by of late so cool for you if it is a Red Pine, I reckon. Nice movement in the trunk too.

wiggs · Post by **wiggs** » January 30th, 2020, 7:04 pm

Hey Mate,

Yeah I actually saw some posts on here recently enquiring so I kind of thought that.

Where I bought it from up here, he tries hard but care and attention to detail isn’t the best I honestly bought it for potential where it could go as opposed to what I should have paid for it, it needs TLC and a repot in the right season, it was potted in a way too big a pot and not confident in the best soil or fed correctly.

But potential and trunk movement made me purchase it.

So when I got him home, full sun fed it with pellet fertiliser and some of Leong from Bonsai South liquid stuff and it’s bouncing back already.

Lots of work to be done but very happy all things considered.

I am planning some decent amount of work and wiring this weekend so hopefully I can update with something a little tidier.

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Ryceman3 · Post by **Ryceman3** » January 30th, 2020, 7:14 pm

Definitely has the look of a JRP (both in terms of bark and buds), 2 needle pine no doubt so, as shibui says, if the choice is between JBP or JRP it matters not as you would treat both the same from a bonsai point of view... they are both multi flush pines. I like the trunk on it, treat it right and it’ll reward you quickly... nice.

wiggs · Post by **wiggs** » January 30th, 2020, 7:21 pm

Yes thanks and agree, funny thing was when I bought it part of it he was selling me on it by saying this pot I sell for $100, I said to him politely I’m happy to repot it and bring it back if you think that.

I bought another JBP off him very cheap, again not well looked after but I loved the size and trunk movement and saw the potential.

Again tried to charge me more because of the pot, again too big and wrong pot in my view, it was the potential.

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