Japanese Black Pine in need of something

MJL · Post by **MJL** » April 14th, 2020, 10:11 pm

Hey Paul,

Literati is ...

Hard. Really hard. Drop the odd f'bomb in there for effect if you so desire.

I guess you could say, conceptually it is easy ... long, thin.. a bit of growth here and there.

The great literati - in my eyes at least - look as old any bonsai (in a hobby all about the perception of age) - yet their trunks are usually slender; their bark and form rugged, aged and withered. Perhaps think about it this way ... a very elderly person - walking slowly, hunched, aided by a gnarly walking-stick, head down - grimacing in the face of an icy chill wind... ... from a distance frail ...then you look them in the eye and all you see is strength, determination, wisdom. Find that in a tree... and you're approaching literati.

Being at best, an apprentice's apprentice in this fine hobby, I can hardly talk with authority and through the 6-7 years I have been playing I have purchased so much straggly stock, so much crud that I have tried to whack a few bends in... at best I get something weird, maybe even bordering on interesting but as yet, I have nothing that even lives in the shadow of a literati.

I do crap on - it is my way - but I love literati - I am not saying don't give it a crack - go for it - just walk the path with your eyes wide open. This book is a joy and may give you some inspiration... https://www.bookdepository.com/Literati ... 1602200180

These pictures from my copy might help too.

IMG_8591.jpeg

[attachment=0]IMG_8593.jpeg[/attachment

paul smedley · Post by **paul smedley** » April 14th, 2020, 10:24 pm

MJL wrote: ↑April 14th, 2020, 10:11 pm Hey Paul,

Literati is ...

Hard. Really hard. Drop the odd f'bomb in there for effect if you so desire.

I guess you could say, conceptually it is easy ... long, thin.. a bit of growth here and there.

The great literati - in my eyes at least - look as old any bonsai (in a hobby all about the perception of age) - yet their trunks are usually slender; their bark and form rugged, aged and withered. Perhaps think about it this way ... a very elderly person - walking slowly, hunched, aided by a gnarly walking-stick, head down - grimacing in the face of an icy chill wind... ... from a distance frail ...then you look them in the eye and all you see is strength, determination, wisdom. Find that in a tree... and you're approaching literati.

Being at best, an apprentice's apprentice in this fine hobby, I can hardly talk with authority and through the 6-7 years I have been playing I have purchased so much straggly stock, so much crud that I have tried to whack a few bends in... at best I get something weird, maybe even bordering on interesting but as yet, I have nothing that even lives in the shadow of a literati.

I do crap on - it is my way - but I love literati - I am not saying don't give it a crack - go for it - just walk the path with your eyes wide open. This book is a joy and may give you some inspiration... https://www.bookdepository.com/Literati ... 1602200180

These pictures from my copy might help too. IMG_8591.jpeg[attachment=0]IMG_8593.jpeg[/attachment

MJL,
if those are your words they are so eloquent that i see clearly what it means to find a Literati style in a tree. Perfectly put. the pictures look great and it will take a bit of humming and hahing before i decide, or I may just go for it and see what happens. My bonsai journey started 5 years ago and it went for ... 8 months only. Now those trees have shown their heads again after so long (and a large cleanup of the back yard due to the pandemic) that i figure they need some looking after. I have a great bonsai neighbour (award winning) so I may ask him first what he thinks and if he doesn't pass out from laughter i may also get some ideas.
They seem so dignified the literati so it will be an interesting makeover.
thanks so much for the reply and words. they are inspiring to keep me going.
Cheers P

MJL · Post by **MJL** » April 14th, 2020, 10:44 pm

paul smedley wrote: ↑April 14th, 2020, 10:24 pm
MJL,
if those are your words they are so eloquent that i see clearly what it means to find a Literati style in a tree.
Cheers P

Paul ... thank you ... ha... certainly my words - most people around these AusBonsai parts know that I ramble ... every now and then it might make sense.

Cheers, have a good night.

paul smedley · Post by **paul smedley** » May 14th, 2020, 1:53 pm

Updated to give you all a bit ion a laugh.

Finally got around to playing with my JBP and had a bit of fun with it. After trawling through the interweb, watching every video i could get my hands on, re-reading this post and others and reading items until my eyes crossed i have decided to give literati a bit of a go (my very first wiring job). Bound with some great sports bandage (non adhesive) and twisted with double 5mm wire. I was very very concerned for it breaking but now realise just how bendable these wee plants are, especially when braced and bound. Anyway, certainly have a look, suggest, laugh heartily our eye roll.
Cheers P

pine Japanese black wired 1.jpeg

bki · Post by **bki** » May 14th, 2020, 2:09 pm

your line is now cascading, literati should be reaching up.

paul smedley · Post by **paul smedley** » May 14th, 2020, 3:49 pm

bki wrote: ↑May 14th, 2020, 2:09 pm your line is now cascading, literati should be reaching up.

thanks ski, note.
is this better?

IMG_2152.jpeg

IMG_2153.jpeg

GavinG · Post by **GavinG** » May 15th, 2020, 3:19 pm

It wasn't strictly cascading, as the foliage does not fall below the edge of the pot. And there are plenty of literati that have nodding heads - the main principle is absolute freedom of design, slender, graceful, elegant and saying something interesting with the fewest possible branches. Keep having fun!

Gavin

SquatJar · Post by **SquatJar** » May 15th, 2020, 5:10 pm

I quite like the first image, but with a few more variations in tightness of bends like you've done in the second photo would've looked more literati style

bki · Post by **bki** » May 16th, 2020, 2:56 pm

Hi Paul,
I manage to take photos while watering so I thought you may wannna see my literatis in development. They will be wired again when it get a bit more cold.
Treeman is right, some friends stumble upon them in my backyard where at the start I have around 50 starters (just like yours) I bought from a nursery in Monbulk before they shut down a few years ago. Now i'm left with around 20. Literati black pine is my most favorite among the bonsai's so I persevere so much. I know I cannot accomplish what real bonsai masters can do but I don't throw the towel. Knowledge may come to me in many days in the future just like you did in the second photos.
One good rule I follow is no green is higher than the apex in final design. I saw a collection of literatis from a guy who told me that, his collection is jaw dropping mate.

IMG_1622.jpg

IMG_1621.jpg

IMG_1620.jpg

IMG_1619.jpg

IMG_1618.jpg

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IMG_1616.jpg

GavinG · Post by **GavinG** » May 16th, 2020, 6:06 pm

Good luck with your collection of literati bkl, and thanks for posting. There are some old and subtly-moving trunks in there, you've got great bones to work on. I particularly like the last one.

Gavin

bki · Post by **bki** » May 16th, 2020, 7:31 pm

Thanks GavinG.

paul smedley · Post by **paul smedley** » May 17th, 2020, 9:05 am

bki wrote: ↑May 16th, 2020, 2:56 pm Hi Paul,
I manage to take photos while watering so I thought you may wannna see my literatis in development. They will be wired again when it get a bit more cold.
Treeman is right, some friends stumble upon them in my backyard where at the start I have around 50 starters (just like yours) I bought from a nursery in Monbulk before they shut down a few years ago. Now i'm left with around 20. Literati black pine is my most favorite among the bonsai's so I persevere so much. I know I cannot accomplish what real bonsai masters can do but I don't throw the towel. Knowledge may come to me in many days in the future just like you did in the second photos.
One good rule I follow is no green is higher than the apex in final design. I saw a collection of literatis from a guy who told me that, his collection is jaw dropping mate.

Thanks bki, your collection looks amazing, old and true. It its a pleasure looking at other people's bonsai and is certainly something to aspire to. It is also obvious that i have a lot of work to do which i am about to have some real fun with now that i am back in the proverbial saddle. most of the plants just need a good repot and to start again so that is the challenge i have set myself. Fortunately i now have the time. i know literati is incredible difficult to make work even though it look o simple so it will be interesting to see what my wee pine looks like once the wrapping comes off.

Cheers P

paul smedley · Post by **paul smedley** » May 17th, 2020, 9:07 am

SquatJar wrote: ↑May 15th, 2020, 5:10 pm I quite like the first image, but with a few more variations in tightness of bends like you've done in the second photo would've looked more literati style

Thanks Josh. I may rethink the design and as he is only freshly been wired i have little time to play with. Perhaps i will go back to the first with a bit more bend as you say..

shibui · Post by **shibui** » May 17th, 2020, 5:04 pm

Just be aware that every bend does some internal damage. We bank on any one bend not doing enough damage to be fatal but each bend one way then another increases internal damage and can reach the point where it completely prevents sap flow and parts will then die.
I would suggest leaving this one alone for at least a few weeks, better months, to start healing before further bending in different directions.

paul smedley · Post by **paul smedley** » May 17th, 2020, 5:20 pm

shibui wrote: ↑May 17th, 2020, 5:04 pm Just be aware that every bend does some internal damage. We bank on any one bend not doing enough damage to be fatal but each bend one way then another increases internal damage and can reach the point where it completely prevents sap flow and parts will then die.
I would suggest leaving this one alone for at least a few weeks, better months, to start healing before further bending in different directions.

Nuts Shibui. i wish i saw your post before putting the pine through more torture. I have now redone it and, if it survives, i will be very happy or out with the choppers in a few weeks!
Here's hoping that it has not had too much damage done to it, and lesson learnt which is why i am here.

AusBonsai

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