Urgent assistance required Pine.

[Stevegg]

Hi All, I have a Pine that I started training well over 15 years ago when I thought I would give Bonsia a try. I’m cant even remember what type of Pine it is.
Due to life’s pace it just got left behind in mainly shade and afternoon sun here in Perth, Western Australia.

I hope to get it back up and running if possible. I think the trunk is too thin and the branches are scrawny with not many needles. I think I have repotted it about 3 times and not much food. I don’t know how it has stayed alive really.

I want to make the bottom of the truck thicker and get more branch and needle growth on its scraggly branches.

Should I remove branches or what?

I was wondering if I should remove it from it’s Bonsia pot and just put it into a very large garden pot or a larger Bonsia pot?

Is Autumn the right time to repot?

Please let me know what you think and any ideas to help.
Cheers and many thanks.
Steve

[Stevegg]

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[shibui]

Hi Steve
Your picture did not come up. Files need to be under 1Mb to load on Ausbonsai so you may have to compress them or reduce the file size somehow.
Use the attachment tab at the bottom to upload photos.

In Perth you may be able to get away with repotting this late in autumn but spring is probably better, especially if the tree is not really healthy.
Pines have some unique characteristics. They rarely bud on bare wood so we are really limited to pruning where there are healthy needles to get new shoots. That makes it really difficult to reduce old, leggy branches.

[Stevegg]

Photos

[alpineart]

Hi Steve , mate it looks like a Japanese Black PIne and a very leggy one at that . If it was mine and I'm a hacker and chopper I would design a new tree using only the first branch Pic 2 shows a good cascading apex . you could leave a section for a jin at the top of this new tree
Chop the top growth back hard to a bunch of needles closest to the main trunk , make sure you leave quite a few needles or the branch will most likely die . remove this seasons candles/shoots off the lower branch and basically wire a cascading apex into the new tree .
If you have plenty of time you could set a few layers on the upper branches after winter just because you might want a few more pines . You could layer the zig zag section and try to build another tree up there .

A re-pot late winter or slip pot now into a bigger container , plenty of care and feeding during the next few growing seasons and you will have something reasonable to work on .
Failing this idea try a literati utilizing the leggy branches to continue the zig zag movement in the trunk , just remove the lower branches to stubs for jins tip prune the leggy top growth and wire for a literati .

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A google search will give you few ideas . Hope this helps .

Cheers Alpineart

[Stevegg]

Thanks for your reply Alpineart. That’s great.
Does anyone else have any other suggestions or thoughts it would be much appreciated.
I don’t want to lose it as it’s been a while since I have done any Bonsia it would be a shame.
Cheers Steve

[tgward]

If you want to keep it at that size you will probably need to pot into a larger grow pot and feed well for a couple of years for a couple of years before retraining.

[shibui]

Well done to get the pics up.
Definitely long and leggy as expected for a pine that has not been maintained properly. I can also see a number of places where there are 3 or more shoots at the same spot. It is common on pines but not desirable for bonsai. I'd first try to eliminate the longest from all of those whorls.
The trunk as it is has very little taper and may even have some bulges and reverse taper in the upper section where whorls of branches have been allowed to grow. Several shoots or branches from one place soon thickens that spot. I would consider cutting back the main trunk and using one of the side branches as a new apex if possible.
Not sure when it was last repotted but I think it could be due for a good root reduction and fresh potting mix. They usually take off and grow really well with room for new roots and fresh mix. Feeding well and getting it healthier would give you a far better response to any restyle or rehabilitation work.

You have a few options I think.
1. Prune all the branches back to the first side shoot or the shortest side shoot. Then grow out the branches again but slowly this time with proper management so you have short nodes and plenty of ramification. That's probably a 5-10 year project.
2. Wire everything and then bend those branches into tight curves to compact the length and bring all the growing tips in closer to the tree. I have some branches on a couple of my pines that I did this to. They look OK now. That would be relatively immediate but does nor always look good immediately.
3. Get rid of a lot of the longest parts and restyle a tree from what's left. relatively immediate but will probably need a few years to fill out.
4. Graft some shoots onto the bare parts of any desirable branches so there's more density and ramification. another 5-10 year project.

[Stevegg]

Thanks for all your ideas. Fantastic.
Please keep them coming.
Stay safe. Cheers Steve

[Max]

i would also have a look at some Literati pine bonsai, this would still allow you do utilise some of the movement in your trunk. I'm very much a fan of that style. To me it seems to allow more artistic freedom/expression, you will also notice that taper is not really a major factor

[Stevegg]

What a great website for learning and getting advice from friendly posters
Its appreciated.
Stay safe and cheers.
Steve

[Stevegg]

Do you think I should repot it into a larger pot and leave it before beginning shaping etc or, repot it and start pruning, shaping and wiring straight away?
Thanks again.

[alpineart]

Hi Steve , mate work , wire then re-pot it .Nothing harder than try to work a tree thats just been potted up and bobbing around like Noddy .

Cheers . Alpine

[Stevegg]

Thanks all, chopped a few branches today not to many, got a worried what it would look like. and a did bit of wiring.
I might give it light feed and repot at a later date.
I lifted the 2 rocks while doing a little weeding my god, It looks like it’s been snowing under them with that white funge moss.
God knows what the root are going to look like.
I also had a go at 2 Japanese Maple Air Layers.

Cheers Steve

[Ryceman3]

I lifted the 2 rocks while doing a little weeding my god, It looks like it’s been snowing under them with that white funge moss.
God knows what the root are going to look like.
Cheers Steve

That “white moss” you speak of is more than likely mycorrhizal fungi (a guess without seeing pics). If so, you should be happy rather than concerned. It lives in a symbiotic relationship with the roots and helps them in the uptake of nutrients from the soil. Make sure you keep some of it and stick it back in the new soil when you repot to aid in the development of the tree down the track. Stick some in with your other pines too if you have any. Good news I’d say!!