Oak restyle opinion

[Rare plant Pat]

Hi everyone - hope you're all going well in whatever Covid context you find yourself.

I have an old oak that I got a year and a half ago that I want to restyle. there are a number of structural design problems with the nebari and I mostly want to focus on that in this post. My plan is to change the nebari using root grafts ( I have over a dozen seedlings prepared) I have two main thoughts plus a third that I just saw when marking up the photos. They are as follows:

Black line: Root grafts at black line and make this the new soil level
Blue line: Keep the soil level more or less the same and root graft up the side and let them grow into the voids to fill out the nebari.
Red line: just notice this - tilt and root graft around to fill in voids and set this as the new level

My preferred front is the first pic and the pics go around clockwise from the first photo.

Proposed front


Left Hand Side


Back


Right Hand Side

[Beano]

I cannot see your photos


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ryceman3]

Hi Pat, photos were fine for me!
My initial thoughts are ground layer on the black line to eliminate any real/potential inverse taper issues. In my experience ground layering is less risky/ more successful than air layering, and I think in this case makes the most sense... nothing below worth actively preserving based on what I see in the photos. Never done an oak but I don’t see why not.
How good is lockdown...stage 4!?! Now we’re talking!

[treeman]

Ground layering is a bad idea. Very risky and most likely you will kill the tree. There is no need for root grafting either. Let the tree do it's thing and it's nebari (and dignity) will develop naturally with the correct root pruning over the years.

[Ryceman3]

Ground layering is a bad idea. Very risky and most likely you will kill the tree.

How come? Like I said, I've never done it so no real practical experience to offer in relation to oak and I know they probably don't throw out roots like a chinese elm for example, but I did a very quick search and found several succesful examples of people air layering quercus of all kinds. I would think a ground layer is one step safer than air layering??

Example :

oak layer_01.JPG

oak layer_02.JPG

oak layer_03.JPG

[KIRKY]

Would love to know if that tree is still alive? Just because it can be done doesn’t mean that tree has survived. Oaks can be very touchy when repotting let a lone air layering. If you go ahead with the ground layering, I would leave it for at least a couple of seasons before removing the original roots to be sure it has enough roots and microbes around the roots to help it survive. Be prepared for die back too. Even when repotting you don’t want to bare root established trees, or take more than a third off the roots. Its a nice trunk I personally would work with what you have than risk losing it. Good luck.
Cheers
Kirky

[treeman]

Ground layering is a bad idea. Very risky and most likely you will kill the tree.

How come? Like I said, I've never done it so no real practical experience to offer in relation to oak and I know they probably don't throw out roots like a chinese elm for example, but I did a very quick search and found several succesful examples of people air layering quercus of all kinds. I would think a ground layer is one step safer than air layering??

Example :
oak layer_01.JPG
oak layer_02.JPG
oak layer_03.JPG

Anything's possible but oaks are notoriously reluctant to put out adventitious roots. But why risk a tree the has no real problem?

[Akhi]

That’s a very thick tapering trunk you have there. The pic that’d said ‘back’ would be my pic for a front and would look to graft branches rather than shorten the height by root grafting layering or other technique. But that’s just me who only has an oak the thickness of a pen ATM.

[Rare plant Pat]

Thanks for the feedback so far.

The main problems I have with the trunk is some significant reverse taper down low below the black line. Are you suggesting Mike that this can be countered with culture? Would be interested to know what I should do if so.

Not sure what ground layering is, but I have more than a dozen seedlings that I have wired with a 90 degree bend right at the base and was planning to graft them at the black line as the new nebari - effectively raising the ground level to the black line.

Mike are you saying that the roots will swell and fill out the reverse taper in time?

[Sno]

An old oak tree is going to get lumps and bumps . I wouldn’t worry too much if you are trying to achieve an old oak look . I would snip off the higher growing root and keep some spag moss close to the base .
A couple of images of some oak trunks .

283C96BE-2058-4B59-AF72-F8EB99A7F8FA.jpeg

5161BE94-5A3C-40B0-BDC7-3FC14506BE08.jpeg

And one of mine which has a fairly ordinary base .

2BF150A9-8D60-4116-9155-1A987F16D119.jpeg

[Rare plant Pat]

Wow, thanks Sno - those pics are helpful. Do you grow trees at Crackenback?

[Sno]

I am trying to .

[MJL]

Hey Pat,
I hope the Penny-farthing is going well - a bit hard to ride at present (or perhaps not) - it's exercise I guess?

Two pence worth ... to put it in language of your bike.... I reckon your looking for unnecessary complexity.

Your current back (photo 3 looks) like a good front to me - doesn't seem to be a heap of reverse taper on that angle (and Sno's pics say so what to that anyway).

Perhaps if you did make a new front - the tree could probably be angled at repot - perhaps a tad toward the viewed and slightly right.

Cheers,

Mark

[Rare plant Pat]

Thanks Mark,

hope all is well with you mate. I've been out on the bike today actually. Until stage four I had been teaching myself to hill climb up to Toolangi and descend again. Its been a hoot.Top speed so far is 45kph.

Back on Bonsai - I've got the tree inside at the moment, so I'm taking quite look at it. I'll check the back and see what I think. Stay well.

[Rare plant Pat]

Thanks for all the input so far.

Any last suggestions before I make a decision?