2 needle pine ID?

[Timritchie]

Hi I’ve collected a few of these pines from a south coast location near the site of a former pine plantation. The needles are in pairs and about 140 mm long. Anyone have a guess at what species they are?
Thanks Tim


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[shibui]

We need a lot more than needle numbers and length to ID a pine. 2 needles only eliminates about half the possibilities.
Can you find any pine cones? Open and unopened if possible. Cones are a significant identifier for pinus species so a pic would help narrow the search considerably.
Mature bark is often a good identifier for pine species so if you can find an older tree a pic of the trunk would help.
Sometimes overall habit can be a a help so a good shot of the whole adult tree can also be useful.

A number of species have been tried for forestry in Australia so your pines could be any of:
Pinus radiata (usually has needles in 3s)
Pinus nigra - European black pine.
Pinus pinaster
Pinus taeda
Pinus ponderosa
Pinus elliotii
Pinus caribea

There are probably more that have been tried at different times and in different places.

[Timritchie]

Thanks shibui yes I thought it maybe an involved process, I’ll be down that way next week and take some more pics and look for cones.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[greg27]

Give the location name a google - very often there are historical records about former plantations that might give you the species name, which could help narrow things down at least to give you a "best guess".

[Timritchie]

Thanks Greg will do


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Timritchie]

Shibui, I dropped by the site earlier this week and had a look around, not many mature trees and I could only find old cones which where smallish classic shaped pine cones, I’m leaning toward P halepensis “Cluster Pine or Maritime Pine” from Africa and southern Europe (i.e. Spain, Portugal, south-western France, northern Italy and Yugoslavia). The site is not far from Jervis Bay and the pacific ocean.
Greg! There is a sign there Australian Softwood Corporation hidden from the road, I googled the name and nothing came up although I did find a reference to experimental pine plantations in the early 50s but no specific species, although there are P radiata growing there as well. Thanks
The bark

The habit of a mature tree

The cones after disturbing a brown snake sunning itself!
Thanks again


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Timritchie]

The sign


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[shibui]

Scale is all important with many plant IDs. The photos shows the shape of the cones but leaves me to guess about the size based on a couple of pine needles and leaves nearby. Stick a hand, a battery or a ruler or some other common fixed size item in ID photos.
A couple of those cones are longer than the classic radiata cones so that helps a little.
The bark on the tree is quite black and ridged so again helps narrow down the possibilities.

P.halapensis tends to be used more in drier areas and I don't think it is used for plantations either so less of a chance.
Maritime pine is P. pinaster so a different (but related species) to halapensis. Maritime has 2 needles and longer cones - tick, tick. It is also a low altitude coastal species - another tick. Bark is described as orange red but some of the online photos show blacker old bark. P. pinaster is listed as grown in Australia and also known to go feral here.
Note that needles are described as up to 25 cm long and stout - up to 2mm broad so does not sound really ideal for bonsai.

On balance and without more info there's enough circumstantial evidence to go for P. pinaster for this one.

[Timritchie]

Hi Neal,
I’m happy to go with P pinaster thanks for your input.
Obviously not a common bonsai species so I’ll try a bonsai regime and attempt to reduce needle length etc
Just one of those weeds that catch your eye when driving around. They’re also growing in crappy shale soil and fine roots are seldom seen, probably a 25% Yamadori success rate
Thanks Tim


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[treeman]

Pinaster has pink bark very hard and course. https://www.google.com/search?q=pinus+p ... 3&biw=1536 Halapensis is finer, grey and flaky with orange tones underneath. https://www.google.com/search?q=pinus+h ... 3&dpr=1.25 The trunk you show is a radiata. I have been collecting tons of radiata bark from felled 80/100 year old trees for my orchids.
That's what it is.

[Timritchie]

Freeman thanks
I did a little exploration around the area and came up with this
P pinaster?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[treeman]

Freeman thanks
I did a little exploration around the area and came up with this
P pinaster?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Probably. Other pines with similar bark are P maritima, P pinea, and P canariensis. They are all related.