I.D 2 Figs

[alpineart]

These were gifted many years ago from an old timer

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both were growing together for a last 10 years , only putting on about 4 pair of leaves per year , very slow growing figs

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these are twins except for the colour ! is white the other is red all other attributes are identical growth habit , growth rate , leaf shape and size

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Maximum leaf size unrestricted is 75mm or 7.5 cm I have 2 whites and a red around 30 yo .

Cheers Ian

[Kevin]

Hello Ian,

My ,

From here the second one definitely looks like a Moreton Bay fig, with its lustrous big leaves and red petioles. The first one has distinctively green petioles, so I'm not too sure with that one. As you say it does look identical except for the petiole colour.

However, Moreton Bay's and most figs are very vigorous growers, so I can only assume they have had their roots restricted in tight containers.

Kevin

[melbrackstone]

Hi Ian, There's a ficus study group on farcebook run by Jerry Meislik, who has published a number of books on Figs over the years. There are quite a few experts in there who can help identify various figs. https://www.facebook.com/groups/369975123052549

I posted this in there the other day, and without and pics of the fruit, the consensus seems to be that it's Ficus obliqua. Moreton Bay figs tend to have a reddish furry underside to the leaves, amongst other ID points, and from all accounts my tree is definitely NOT a Moreton Bay. Here's a pic of the leaves. There's a possibility yours might be also.

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[alpineart]

Hi Kevin I just binned 6-8 figs that had 15-20cm leaves which I believe were Moreton Bay Figs with the so called M or W at the base of the leaf

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These 2 figs have a smaller leaf 3 inches or 75mm /7.5cm being the largest leaf however the average leaf size is around 40-50mm or 4-5 cm or less than 2 inches .
There was a topic from here I found on google identifying PJ from MB Figs however these 2 figs dispute that identification method in colour and leaf connection point . That is if these are PJ or MB figs

Both the green /white and the red figs have identical leaves in size and shape connection to the petiole is the same bark is the same , growth is the same and they were in 400 x300 x100 deep bonsai pots all the same soil mediums as all my other figs and trees and trunks . With the fig I call red its not only the petiole that is red its the middle vein up the center of the leaf is also deep red .

Cheers Ian

[alpineart]

Hi Mel , That looks very close however what I call the red fig the petiole and the vein is red unlike yours it looks like the vein is green .I will take a look at Ficus Obliqua and the facebook site .Pics of the bark and underside of the leaf

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Cheers Ian

[TimIAm]

Colour and leaf shape are not a reliable way to distinguish between the species.

Typically you should use a published key to the species to differentiate, like this one https://plantnet.rbgsyd.nsw.gov.au/cgi- ... name=Ficus

If you are really interested and have time to spare, then search up 'Figuring out the figs' by Dr Dale Dixon. He looked at hundreds of examples across all of Australia's 49 native species and was responsible for sorting out our current naming convention for Ficus. In the paper it gives measurement ranges across all of the species for all the parts of the plant. The easiest way is to find where the size of different features don't overlap for each species.

When trying to distinguish, you are actually looking across 3 similar species, plus an additional form for F. rubiginosa. So these trees could be:
F. rubiginosa f. rubiginosa
F. rubiginosa f. glabrescens
F. macrophylla
F. obliqua

Despite what some people suggest, there are very reliable ways to ID mature trees. I've noticed that immature trees in the wild can put out growth that can lead to an incorrect ID. I'd be concerned a tree in a pot may have this issue.

[alpineart]

Hi TimIAm , mate I have spent 10 years trying to correctly Identify a pine so I think and hope I have a bit of time left to research this fig .
I contacted numerous wanna be Guru's overseas regarding the pine in question and a new commer here on Ausbonsai located the species in a topic in N.Z .
Many tried none succeeded , but I never gave up . If its a rare red "More Jackson" or "Port Bay" or "wanna be ficus" I will continue to seek out an I.D just for my satisfaction .

Chasing leads on Facebook but they are incorrect to my reckoning but I will follow most leads to hopefully succeed .

Thanks for the info and link , certainly appreciate your effort .

Cheers Ian

[Elmer]

Without a mature fruiting tree or the means to do DNA analysis you will only ever be able to make a best guestimate. And as you have stated, doesn't really fit with being obliqua, rubiginosa spp. Or macrophylla all of which would cope and grow better in your climate. Try F.tridadiata my teacher and his mentor both received small plants from the owner of Bonsai Art at Belrose, that match your 2 including the very different petiole colouring between them and the extremely slow growth.

[alpineart]

Hi Elmer , I know the drill on I.D's its a pain in the butt without all the info .
The leaves on the Ficus triradiata "google search" appear to be more leathery than this fig .

It has the colour similar to the watkinsiena however the leaves are half the size of that ficus .

These were collected/grown by the late Brian Sampson 30 odd years ago and could have come from anywhere across this country .

They have been in my care since being gifted 2014 and they have grown the same and remained the same colour for that period of time while my Benji's , P.J's , MB , and Willow leaf all have grown 4 fold and more .
I have managed to take half a dozen cuttings from both the green and reddish one , however most cuttings don't work like the P.J which grows without much care from cuttings like a noxious weed ..

Any and all leads will be followed up . Thanks for the info .

Cheers Ian

[Raging Bull]

Hi Ian, the other thing to consider is that there are a lot hybridised figs around which may have several confusing growth trends.

[alpineart]

Hi RB definately considered the hybrid possibility after all there's a lot of cross breeds in plants and animals or we wouldn't have the variety we have now .

I was hoping it might have been a simply I.D that i hadn't stumbled across but that doesn't seem to bee the case .

Its more of a guessing game without all the info , might just have to wait for the fruit to arrive for a true I.D . but then again I have only seen fruit on a few Bonsai figs in my time .

I have a few cutting grow samples I think i will let them grow unhindered in huge grow tubs and see what happens , got nothing better to do with them .

Cheers Ian

[melbrackstone]

Hi Ian

Here are some close up pics of the leaves and bark. I have defoliated the tree since the original Dec 2 photo, so I don't have any large leaves to compare. Against the leaves of the guaranteed PJ figs I have, the mature leaves feel similar in thickness. PJ figs seem to have more marked veins. I say guaranteed because my PJ figs were grown by a well respected nurseryman up here, but he did grow them from seed.)
My "Obliqua" was also from seed, dropped onto the branches of a palm tree. It's a VERY fast and coarse grower.)

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[alpineart]

Hi Mel , thanks for the pics , here is a leaf comparison

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the leaves are softer than the PJ and if folded in half they bend whereas the PJ snap . Thickness wise i estimate 50% thinner than the PJ hence they fold and dont snap unless a heavy crease is forced upon it

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L to R "Ian's Red" 7.5cm , "Ians Green"7.0cm , Ians PJ 4.5 cm Ian's MB 10cm , All these leaves are the largest I could find except for the MB as they were all thrown in the bin and most were damaged . MB have grown around 15 - 20 cm here in the past that's why i have disposed of them rather than waste time and effort .
Still chasing leads .

Cheers Ian

[melbrackstone]

Looks like the syconia will be the final answer, if they ever fruit. Meanwhile, might as well just enjoy the tree.

[TimIAm]

My original info was to help try and distinguish between the 4 typical ones you see around Sydney. But here is a couple more I think worthwhile considering:

F. henneana has soft leaves and the ones I've seen have purple stipules. They have thinner petiole than PJ or MBF. One thing they do have which I don't see in your pictures is because they are thinner/softer they don't maintain a straight edge along the side of the leaf so when you see a largish tree you can spot the leaves because they curl in and out slightly on the edges.

Another species I think worth looking at is F. microcarpa. There are a number of F. microcarpa in the country. In bonsai circles there are quite a few different non-scientific names which get used (and occasionally miss-applied). These are your 'tiger bark', 'green island', 'green mound' and 'retusa'. Also Ficus microcarpa var. hillii. Even with the various names, there exists a number of true non-hybrid varieties around in garden nurseries, bonsai nurseries, street trees (e.g. hillii) and in collections. I'm unable to help you narrow down what exactly is around with all the names, but these are also worth looking at because there is some similarities with what you have.