when do you water? morning or night? poll and discussion!

[Jamie]

shibui, from what i read it doesnt seem like you have any preffered or recommended fert? and it sounds like you dont fert unless you remember, is this the case? or just the way i have taken it?
i was on the understanding a feeding regime was quite important to the health of the tree.

ash, thanks for clearing up ya singing i get what ya saying now
as you have described reverse osmosis is how i take it too, but from what bretts is saying it can kill a tree quite a lot quicker than i thought??

whats everyone else's opinion on reverse osmosis ??


jamie

[BoNZai]

Hi guys,

Ineresting reading though this thread. There are no hard and fast rules in my book.
My watering takes place in the early evening. I have the advantage that I work from home so I can keep an eye on things during the day. I am a firm believer in observation and taking notes and compare with other seasons.
In the middle of summer I have to water twice a day. Hot Norwesters dry things out quickly
When away I rely on a friend to water my trees. Sofar, this has worked well.

I try to work in with the weather forecasts and I am lucky that they are accurate for my region.
Someone mentioned thunderstorms and lightning before; during this time, the air is laden with nitrogen and the leaves will take this up apparantly

Fertilising.
In my early bonsai years I was a bit apprehensive to feed my trees regularly. I have done my homework since and the results are showing. Nice green colour, shoot growth and internode length are good indicators.

Once a week I mix in 20 litres of water, 500 mls of seaweed extract, 250 mls of Seasol, 250 mls of worm wees and 2 scoops of Thrive.
This is used on all plants, deciduous, coniferous, pines and azeleas.
One azelea showd some brown tips a few weeks ago so it tells me to button down a bit.

I also use a refractometer to measure brix levels occasionally. Bretts has mentioned this also in a previous thread I recall.

The above works for me here in Kiwi land, might not for anyone else.
As I said before, observation is the key. The plant tells you soon enough when things are not well. However, it takes some time to learn from these observations and make adjustments accordingly.

Hope this helps

Cheers

BoNZai

[Bretts]

That's interesting BoNZai

500 mls of seaweed extract, 250 mls of Seasol, 250 mls of worm wees and 2 scoops of Thrive.

I am thinking seaweed extract and seasol are the same things? Could you clarify this a little for me. 2 scoops of thrive in 20L doesn't sound like alot. Looking at the directions this is about half strength!
I have been talking with and using Nutritech fertilisers. One big lesson I learnt is we must be very careful what fertilisers we mix together. Mix the wrong ones together and molecules bind together and can't be used by the plants. This was said to me after I mixed a balanced fertiliser with a mag boron calc boost.
I always wondered why some one just can't make the perfect fertiliser
Apparently worm juice is fine to mix and I guess seasol is as well but since finding this out worm juice is the only thing I mix these days.

As you may guess I am very interested in you using the refractometer. I guess as you manage your brix levels they must be fine so your fertiliser regime must be too. Could you tell us about some of your findings with this. I can't remember the brix level to aim for at the moment, how well are you able to keep it close to the magic number. Is there anything you found in old fert mixes that where lacking?

[BoNZai]

Bretts,
I thought I might get a response from you re the refractometer

First, I use the commercial Seasol and I brew my own seaweed extract from locally collected kelp. I have used my home brew for years on the garden with good results.
Maybe it is an overkill to use them both together? Dunno

My homebrew had a refrac measurment of 4 brix in late July after 3 weeks. It is sitting now at 11 brix and is nearly all disolved.
According to Arden Andersen anything above 12 brix is good. He quotes 14 as being "the number"
I don't use the readings as a science, more as a guideline. It is important to ensure that the measurements are made under similar circumstances every time. This will give you consistancy. Don't take a measurment one day prior to watering and the following measurement is made a day after watering and fertilising!
By doing this you get a good picture.
I have never been able to get any measurments above 12 brix. Maybe 12 is "my perfect number". I'm happy between 10 and 12. If one day I get a measurement that is a lot lower I have to figure out why and there could be a number of reasons; water stress, forgot to fertilise etc
I keep also a "test plot" of lawn that I test frequently and that scores consistently at 12 brix. It is nice green and lucious.I suppose you can call this my measuring stick
I'm not bothered that I haven't got to 14 brix. It's only a number and by looking at the trees I think I'm on the right track.

Just a note out of the blue now I think about it: An aphid infestation is a sure sign of too much N in your plant!
Yes, I have aphids periodically

BoNZai

[Bretts]

I think I would be sure to be happy with your results. That was very intresting thanks!
I think I better get one they sound like lots of fun

[BoNZai]

Bretts,

It'll be interesting to see what results you come up with

I forgot to mention: I tested grapevine leave samples 3 times in one day at 3 hourly intervals and got 3 different results! The following day I repeated the tests at the the same timings and got the same results as the previous day!

So ensure your tests are consistent. I test now in the morning before the sun gets onto the leaves

happy to compare results

BoNZai

[Bretts]

I have had my Christmas wish list filled at the moment so it might be a while before I get one

I am not suprised that the readings through the day where different. If things are correct they should be going up!

If you are testing in the morning and getting 12's then my understanding is that you could be getting 14 by the evening. The leaf is supposed to store the sugar throughout the day so it should gradually rise!

[BoNZai]

Bretts,

Correct, dehydrated plants give you a higher Brix reading up to 18-20 probably if you can squeeze any sap out of them.
I find it easier to extract sap in the morning as the plant is still hard and crunchy

BoNZai

[bonscythe]

Hi guys,

I try to work in with the weather forecasts and I am lucky that they are accurate for my region.
Someone mentioned thunderstorms and lightning before; during this time, the air is laden with nitrogen and the leaves will take this up apparantly

BoNZai

Just to add to this statement, I am almost certain that plants cannot absorb gaseous nitrogen (N2). The nitrogen in the atmosphere must first be 'nitrified' by microbial species. Otherwise we wouldn't really have to supply any nitrogen to the plants as the atmospheric concentration of nitrogen is 78%, the most abundant gas on earth.
Where did you get this information from Bonzai?

[BoNZai]

Bonscythe,

Not sure where I got this from but I always think about it during a lightning storm Could be an old wives tale for all I know.

Anyhow, our explanatiom makes sense

cheers

BoNZai

[shibui]

Not sure where the idea came from but I thought that lightning changes atmospheric nitrogen gas N2 into other forms which may be soluble. I have noticed that rain makes plants grow far more quickly and greener than any amount of water from another source - dam, well, tap, etc,

[Ash]

About the rain- I have observed the same thing- rain seems to make my plants, especially my ferns, grow better than any water I can apply from tank, tap or bore. I am unsure of the physiological reason but it may be that rain has more dissolved gaseos oxygen...maybe that the period either side of rain is more humid and comes with a little cooling...maybe it flushes out the growing medium. I have my doubts about elevated nitrogen in 'normal' rain though. Ash

[Pup]

I have noticed tree's plants in humid atmosphere, do grow better than trees in a dry atmosphere. So rain creates warmth and humidity therefore growth. In winter the air is cool so no warm humidity. So very little growth.

A bit like dry Perth to humid Sydney mined you Sydney does get a lot more Lightning strikes than Perth.

JMHO no science just observation . I think too much science, and you lose the need for looking at your trees objectively.
Unless you are growing them for crops .

Not for fun as I do, and most other enthusiasts.

Cheers Pup

[Jamie]

[quote="bonscythe]
Just to add to this statement, I am almost certain that plants cannot absorb gaseous nitrogen (N2). The nitrogen in the atmosphere must first be 'nitrified' by microbial species. Otherwise we wouldn't really have to supply any nitrogen to the plants as the atmospheric concentration of nitrogen is 78%, the most abundant gas on earth.
Where did you get this information from Bonzai?[/quote]


just to throw something out there, if nitrogen is in gaseous form in the atmosphere and there is water molecules in the atmosphere in gas form, then when the gaseous form of water molecules possibly pick up the nitrogen gas with it in the rain water there fore turning it into a soluble form of nitrogen?

now i got no idea if any of what i said is correct, it was just thoughts going through my head while reading and i dont remember science class at school what i said makes sense to me but it may sound absolutly ridiculous to others

jamie

[Bretts]

I believe that Plants can absorb a small amount of nitrates from the air but it is minimal. I think it is teh soil that is able to absorbe alot more or at least the microbes in the soil.
You can find information about this stuff here it will take a while but lots of good reading and vids anyway.
http://www.nutri-tech.com.au/blog/

By BoNZai
Correct, dehydrated plants give you a higher Brix reading up to 18-20 probably if you can squeeze any sap out of them.
I find it easier to extract sap in the morning as the plant is still hard and crunchy

I don't think it has anything to do with dehydration. It is because the leaf stores what it makes during the day and releases it at the end of the day.
You mentioned about an aphid attack from extra nitrates. Re-watching this video today I remembered about two different nitrates if these are out of balance you may attract insects. Some thing like this the video has the information!
I thought you must have watched this vid. It would be a great resource to watch if you are using a refractometer.
http://www.nutri-tech.com.au/blog/?p=908