First tool purchase - shears and branch cutter - decisions to make

[Joshua]

Buying first tools, shears and branch cutters.

Already pretty set on Ryuga brand for reputed quality for the price. Also the shop I'm ordering from stock them or kaneshin.
Thinking of going for the cheaper of the following options which are also probably more than good enough for what I'll need for a while.


[1] Stainless vs. carbon steel?
(Edit: I'm not really asking for an answer re. one or the other, because I've already seen the kind of responses poeple get to this question, seems a highly subjective preferential thing)
Leaning towards carbon.
But I'm not quite sure the argument that "stainless is harder to sharpen" really bothers me, and the price difference isn't too bad considering the other advantages.


[2] Scissor type:
Ok to use root shears as all round scissors when starting out?
Or better the other way around?

Just wondering if root shears would be too clunky and eventually annoying to use on smaller branches. It's not like I have many trees, and fewer still at a late level of development.
So root shears seem more important, but maybe It would be preferable to go for some standard scissors to use as all-rounders.

Examples of what I'm looking at:
Standard branch scissors https://vente-bonsai.fr/p/ciseaux-208-m ... bone-ryuga
Slightly different "more comfortable for bigger hands" https://vente-bonsai.fr/p/ciseaux-201-m ... bone-ryuga
Root shears https://vente-bonsai.fr/p/ciseaux-pour- ... bone-ryuga


[3] Hybrid knob/branch cutters vs. standard straight edge?

Leaning toward the standard straight edge ones: Seem to be a staple, slightly cheaper, I assume easier to sharpen.
I guess the question is, how important are knob cutters going to be? and can the hybrid cutters be a good enough substitute for a while?

Not going into vocabulary*, concretely here are the examples:
Standard: https://vente-bonsai.fr/p/pince-oblique ... uga-203-mm
Hybrid: https://vente-bonsai.fr/p/pince-oblique ... bone-ryuga

* Note: in french, a standard "concave cutter" is named "oblique" cutter, and a "knob cutter" is named "concave" cutter

[olicreighton]

(1) I have carbon, easy to sharpen - but you have to maintain. The question should be, are you ready to maintain your carbon scissors? They will rust up quickly without maintenance.

(2) root scissors would be fine to use as normal bonsai scissors, given people at my club use normal rose secateurs for their bonsai. I’d probably suggest against using normal scissors on roots where you’ll encounter soil material.

(3) choose your branch cutters based on what size trees you have in your collection. If you have large trees you’ll need bigger knob cutters / saw. If you use your branch cutters on too large a branch, they can easily bend.

All the best.

[Ryceman3]

[1] Stainless vs. carbon steel?
(Edit: I'm not really asking for an answer re. one or the other, because I've already seen the kind of responses poeple get to this question, seems a highly subjective preferential thing)
Leaning towards carbon. All my tools (except one pair of scissors) are carbon. In terms of maintenance I don't do a hell of a lot, but I will wipe them down at the end of each session to clean the blades. Sap/pitch can build up and affect their cutting ability/precision... but that is the same with stainless. The only other thing is never put them away wet or rust occurs. I keep them in a fabric tool roll and don't notice any issues with rust. They get pretty regular use.
But I'm not quite sure the argument that "stainless is harder to sharpen" really bothers me, and the price difference isn't too bad considering the other advantages. I have only really bothered sharpening a couple of times in the last 8+ years, and like I said, my tools get very regular use. I will say though I have broken cutting edges on a few pairs of scissors a couple of times (carbon ones), usually when I for some reason don't see wire on the branch or whatever and try and cut through it... I have also dropped a pair and broke the tip off. I'm not sure but stainless might be more resilient to these issues?


[2] Scissor type:
Ok to use root shears as all round scissors when starting out?
Or better the other way around?
If you can manage it, both would be ideal. I don't think root shears have the precision for fine pruning/cuts and I don't think pruning scissors would last long as root shears. Regardless which you choose, they will dull quickly when being used as root shears ... cutting through bonsai mix is pretty good at rounding off an edge. In my experience root shears don't need the same level of "sharpness" to function effectively. I don't think I'd be keen to use the same tool to prune/decandle/whatever to the branching and foliage afterwards.

[3] Hybrid knob/branch cutters vs. standard straight edge?

Leaning toward the standard straight edge ones: Seem to be a staple, slightly cheaper, I assume easier to sharpen.
Definitely easier to sharpen. I think I have a pair of Ryuga straight edge branch cutters I got as my first "real" bonsai tool. I have used them solidly for more than 8 years, sharpened them maybe 3 times or less and they are still my go-to cutter. Almost all my other tools are Kaneshin, I actually just bought a straight edge branch cutter from them but haven't used it. I might do a test on a sample branch and see what the difference is. I have knob cutters (Kaneshin) but don't own any hybrid tool so no real feedback sorry. I think straight edge would be fine and when you expand your tool kit get the "full" knob cutter maybe...
I guess the question is, how important are knob cutters going to be? and can the hybrid cutters be a good enough substitute for a while?

Not going into vocabulary*, concretely here are the examples:
Standard: https://vente-bonsai.fr/p/pince-oblique ... uga-203-mm
Hybrid: https://vente-bonsai.fr/p/pince-oblique ... bone-ryuga

* Note: in french, a standard "concave cutter" is named "oblique" cutter, and a "knob cutter" is named "concave" cutter
This actually makes more sense. The standard cutter cuts on an oblique angle and the knob cutter leaves a concave cut. The names in french are therefore more logical in my head, but that might just be me!

[Joshua]

Awesome thanks for the responses. That puts my mind at ease.

If you can manage it, both would be ideal...

Part of my logic is that my crappy and now blunt secateurs have been doing everything until now, and anything would be a step up from that. But perhaps that also why they're now in such a bad shape .
I'll think about it but the scissors can probably wait until the next club group order.

This actually makes more sense. The standard cutter cuts on an oblique angle and the knob cutter leaves a concave cut. The names in french are therefore more logical in my head, but that might just be me!

Yes this was my thought exactly. I was so lost when taking the french terms (which by themselves translate directly) and trying to find info in english. It took a while for it to click.

(3) choose your branch cutters based on what size trees you have in your collection. If you have large trees you’ll need bigger knob cutters / saw. If you use your branch cutters on too large a branch, they can easily bend.

Tempted to go a size up for the cutters then. Not like I have huge trees but thinking the bigger size should also be able to handle smaller branch sizes but not the other way around. That, or I could always just fall back on a saw when necessary. Solid price difference too (59 instead of 41 euros).

Cconcretely what thickess of branch are they limited to? (say 203mm vs 280mm cutters)
Don't tell me - it depend on the species and the hardness of their branches ?
I guess the better question is, what size do you use and in your experience at what point do you decide to switch to a saw?

[Ryceman3]

Maybe look at sharpening your existing secateurs and using them for any current root work, and invest in in the pruning scissors??
Repotting for most species only happens at one time of year generally ... and you are starting to move past that at a guess??
The pruning scissors will be used pretty soon and multiple times a year, so you have extra time to save up for the root shears (or just substitute in the secateurs if you can't see the value) ... just my logic on that, you do you!

If you're worried about the price, the smaller branch cutter will do most branches up to about 18-20mm thick without too much drama (I cut thicker but I'm pretty sure that's discouraged, I find if you go for a couple of "bites" rather than try to shear it off at once you can get away with it). Easier to use/manoeuvre around also and that is important. I don't really use my larger branch cutter much, but I also have pretty small trees in general so there is that...

[olicreighton]

Agreed with r3 about thickness of branches they work for. It’s more of a “don’t think you can cut a trunk with your branch cutters” - you’ll generally know a branch is too thick by feel - too many factors to make hard and fast rules

[Promethius]

I have been using cheap medical surplus equipment for a few years, which has worked well for me. Easy to buy on eBay or similar, readily available in stainless steel.

- Bandage scissors - for root work. About $10.
These are designed to remove plaster casts and are pretty tough, but are not designed for repeated use. My single pair has lasted a few years, without blunting much at all.

- Locking needle holder / haemostat mosquito forceps - instead of jin pliers. Around $5-10.
I'd argue that for small branches the medical equipment is superior due to the ratchet mechanism, making it easy to peel strips away without dropping them. These are also great for tightening the final curve of wire at the end of a branch. Should be about $10-12.

- Bent-nose tweezers - for pulling small weeds, general pot tidying, squishing caterpillars. Around $2.

[shibui]

Kaneshin website has warnings to limit branch cutter to wood around 1/3 - 1/2 the width of the blades.
I find the straight edge branch cutter much better than either the hybrid or knob cutter for most pruning. I've worn out or broken 4 branch cutters but the knob cutter and concave cutter are still almost new.

Definitely don't use good pruning tools to cut roots. Grit in the potting mix quickly ruins the edges. Old/cheap secateurs are OK for root work but I find the root shears easier to handle.

Floral snips can do light pruning on bonsai for a fraction of the cost of bonsai scissors but are shorter which may make it difficult to reach interior shoots.

Stainless is harder so stays sharp longer but definitely very hard to get back to sharp again when blunt. Carbon does not stay sharp as long but much easier to sharpen than stainless. Carbon can also be sharpened to a much sharper edge than stainless but probably not by most amateurs.