English Elm Defoliated.

[Bretts]

Jow

I guess what this all comes back to is that there is more than one way to skin a cat, and each person needs to look within them selves for what methods best suit their personal approach and styling goals.

Its always interesting to see how different people approach solving similar problems.

I do agree here Jow. Since I have been discussing these things I have found that although we often say things in different ways we are often doing much the same thing but thinking we are doing it differently.
Yet the thought process is approached in a different way by different people.

[Waltron]

I really like the tree, and IMO it'll just get better as it ages and fills out.
When I go for a walk I see trees of those proportions everywhere; very natural.

EDIT: What's the secret for a vigorous English elm?

[anttal63]

all good fellas; some great points have been made all round.

[Jow]

EDIT: What's the secret for a vigorous English elm?

The secret is what you can see on top of the soil. There is around 15-20 fertiliser cakes on the soil and i also liquid feed most weeks with nitrosol, power feed or what ever else is cheap or on special at the shop. Every two weeks i add more cakes to replace those that are breaking down.

Feeding and lots of it is the secret for growing most species of bonsai well. That was the first major difference i learnt when i studied the first time in Japan. The shear amount of fertiliser that they used shocked me but since i have adopted similar feeding rates i have been getting nothing but great results. What appeared to be SUPER feeding in Japan was actually just correct feeding. We tend to underfeed a lot here in Australia.

[Jamie]

jow, i am interested in this feeding regime of yours, ontop of the cakes with your liquid feed is that used at reccomended dilution rates or do you add a little more for a bit of a kick and do you use trace elements etc.?????

cheers.


jamie

[Waltron]

The secret is what you can see on top of the soil. There is around 15-20 fertiliser cakes on the soil and i also liquid feed most weeks with nitrosol, power feed or what ever else is cheap or on special at the shop. Every two weeks i add more cakes to replace those that are breaking down.

Feeding and lots of it is the secret for growing most species of bonsai well. That was the first major difference i learnt when i studied the first time in Japan. The shear amount of fertiliser that they used shocked me but since i have adopted similar feeding rates i have been getting nothing but great results. What appeared to be SUPER feeding in Japan was actually just correct feeding. We tend to underfeed a lot here in Australia.

Thanks Jow.

[Jow]

I make my own cakes with the following inside:

*subject to change depending on whats on special.

- 1, 5kg bag dynamic lifter
- 1, 5kg bag blood and bone
- trace elements
- humic acid
- sulfate of potash
- what ever else is cheap and looks interesting

place in a bucket. Mix. add un-diluted liquid feed to wet the mix down to a dough. ie. 1 lt seasol and 1 lt fish emulsion, power feed etc.

then i let it stew in a sealed bucket, checking every week and adding more liquid if the top begins to look dry. Then, after a few weeks i make cakes in between dry retching fits.

Dry in the sun and serve with a garnish of liquid feed.

That's pretty much it. No real science to it. Just mix what ever is on special at you local store together in a bucket and make cakes. Add what ever extras you think might be good (trace elements etc).

What i like about them is that they are so easy to apply and re apply that i end up feeding more often rather than putting it off till next weekend.

I then liquid feed at full strength as per bottle's instructions.

[Bretts]

Hey Jow.
Because of the many fertiliser mixes that bonsai gardeners are using I started mixing fertilisers. Mix a few together and you get the perfect fertiliser.
I wondered why the fertiliser companies weren't doing this. I recently found out!
Many fertilisers should not be mixed together. While talking to Nutritech I mentioned that I had mixed Total 10 and Trio. I was told that this would lock up certain particles and the tree would not be able to use them.
I was also told that humic acid could not be mixed with other fertilisers. Fulvic can with some although it is better as a foliar as it washes away quicker than humic.
This basically left me with the opinion that I should not mix fertilisers any more unless I knew exactly what I was doing.
Nutritech have a fert called hot mix which is a fert that uses a special process to safely combine many ingredients that are not usually able to be. It is not cheap but I might try that next year.

Now your dynamic lifter and blood and bone is probably fine as they are both very organic ferts but then mixing them with a liquid(whatever is on specail) may not be the best and also the humic with say the total ten that I know you have been using does not go.
Then again these may all be fine together as a cake as some times the only issue is that the mix clumps together and won't go out the rose of the watering can or sprayer.
Just thought I should mention this as there is alot of discussion about mixing ferts but really one should be very carefull doing this. Is there any commercial fert that works as a combined cake. I wonder why not ?

[Jamie]

interesting jow, and brett.


it seems from what you are saying that i am one of those that have been underfeeding to a degree, probably due to thinking i would be over fertilizing, the cakes sound like they have high levels of nitrogen in them aswell with the dynamic and blood and bone, thiss obviously would push strong new growth and help alot, but when it comes to the colder times do you change this mix up to harden off the new growth to survive autumn and winter?
thanks for going into some detail with this mate


cheers.

jamie

[Jow]

I don't really see a reason to change our fert too much over winter. I will back it off but not change what i use. We don't get a snow load or really any snow at all for that matter here in Melbourne so i don't see the need to feed in preparation for freezing temps like you may in colder climates. I dont really even get much frost as my garden is quite protected. some years certain deciduous trees don't even go dormant.

re: Brett. Interesting what you are saying. I don't see a problem with using cakes and mixing though as i tend to use a range of ferts and i am guessing that they are combining in the soil anyway. I have had some issues with clumping in a watering can but as a cake is just a big clump anyway it should still dissolve as you water and it breaks down. That said i am no scientist. I have no real idea about the chemistry behind ferts.

[Bretts]

I don't see a problem with using cakes and mixing though as i tend to use a range of ferts and i am guessing that they are combining in the soil anyway.

I don't understand it either Jow
The Rep at nutritech told me that I could apply Total ten and then apply Trio straight after one another without issue but I can't apply them together as this would lock up elements. It seems strange that they are able to combine in the soil but not in the mixing can? I also had a problem doing one after the other as I figured one would push the other out of the soil to a degree before the tree could use it?
With some like humic as I understand it is more an issue of clogging ie turning to sludge but as it seems there is more than meets the eye to this I have stopped mixing.
I often wondered why no fert company ever made an organic/chemical fertiliser in one. One more instant than the other and one longer lasting why not combine the two? So as I said there is alot I don't understand so I just do the extra work to add everything at different times until I know more.

Just looking around a bit it seems that Japan sells fertiliser cakes. The recipies I have seen look to have only organic ingredients.
If you make your own maybe it would be safer to do the same.
http://www.matsubonsai.com/blog/post/20 ... Cakes.aspx

[Jan]

Thanks all, I can see that I’m erring too far on the side of caution. I’ll have to up the fertilizer rates/frequency.

There’s just so much to learn….

I have a few books on Bonsai including Deborah Koreshoff’s “Bonsai” (my first book); What would be a good basic bonsai library list?

Jan

[Jow]

Just an update... The little Elm is back in full leaf again.

elm-in-leaf.jpg

[Bretts]

When does it get an oval pot Jow?

[Jow]

When i can

A: Afford to bring one in from Japan

and

B: Can source one in Japan.