Zeolite, has anyone used it straight?

[Jamie]

grant, this is interesting, yes it would of been heavy but i would of thought being black pine it would of struggled without mychrozia? i know diatomite works a treat, as for zeolite by itself, time will tell

jamie

[Bretts]

This question might need a seperate thread?

Does PH matter? The international guys where telling me years ago that there is no reason to test the ph of your bonsai soil.
Apparently this was only an indicator for landscape soil. The explination was that the PH is only an indication of available nutrients and since we are always adding fertiliser to our bonsai soil then the PH just did not matter?
The azalea was an exception to the rule

LOL I think Grant has a story about mychrozia and pines.

[Grant Bowie]

Just that I grew thousands of Pines from seed and never added Mychoriza. Established pines always have some but those that are heavilly fertilized don't seem to have much as opposed to those poorly fertilized.

Most people seem to practice keeping and reinoculating the pines with Mychoriza which of course is fine.

Grant

[Graeme]

About 22 years ago I conducted an experiment that proved to me you could grow Japanese Black pines in 100% Decomposed Granite(I used 2 - 6 mm approx I think) as had been used for years in california since the 50s and 60s.
I bare rooted a nursery stock black pine, washed the soil out, trimmed the roots and placed it into 100% DG in a colander; In the heat of January. Every thing that was supposed to be wrong.
The tree thrived with normal techniques and good fertilizing from then on.
The draw back was that it buggered the tools when root trimming, plus it became prohibitavely expensive plus I had to sieve and wash it; just as water restrictions were coming in and the quarry would not wash it for me. Plus it was heavy.
I am however still interested in totally inert mixes so I watch all these threads with interest.
Grant

Hi Grant, I think I remember discussing your experiment with you sometime back in the past. It is indeed very interesting and shows how hard it is to get exact science into Horticulture.
I have never personally done any specific research into 100% inert growing media as I guess I have never been that interested, but I remember discussing this matter with the two before mentioned Adelaide Girls. It was just after the free draining, grit loaded mix was devised out of Sydney all those years ago. Pauline worked at one of the research facilities in Adelaide and had been discussing the mix at work. As opinion was devided on its worth she did a bit of work with the mix. Apparently the root system of the plants were checked and found to slow their growth the hotter the mix got. She even got some of the plants to slow to the extent they died I believe. I think there was a whole heap of other stuff involved with plants grown in to open a mix as well, but as I said, I use potting mix in with my Horticultural Grit so haven't bothered to retain the information.
I guess it's just more of the old, "Get three people into the discussion and you'll end up with three opinions". (and all of them will be right )

[aaron_tas]

wow

just keeping up with you guys is a full time job... i missed heaps, 3 pages.

i use close to 100% inert, but have never gone the whole hog so to speak.

i do however have a great interest in how jamie's trees will go in just zeolite and will watch for thier updates, i don't think it's a silly idea at all.

[Jamie]

thanks for the back up aaron! i think it will be fine to, ya know it is a similar product to diatomite which is used straight to great effect so i dont know how it could be to much different?

what are your thoughts on it aaron?


jamie

[aaron_tas]

what are your thoughts on it aaron?

i reckon if i had sweet access, i'd give it a go

i've used it in the past at around 40% and some people thought i was crazy to use it like that, but times have certainly changed and my mix has more so.

i would not hesitate to use it at 90% today if i had it, but your results would sway me further to a hunji if all goes as i think it will.

if i were to use it at a hunji, i'd water like 3-4 times a day and feed the arse off it, so there is too much "essence" to "trap". i would think that the medium would become saturated and i don't think the whole trap would be an issue...

we'll see

[Jamie]

nice sounds good. well the thing is i have been using seasol on it everyday, it doesnt seem to be a problem when watering as it is so free draining any exccess goes straight out the bottom! and as for the leaching i could probably feed the hell out of it as it will take so much in the zeolite then everything else will just escape, might not be to economic, but i am not phased bout that with the testing stage


jamie