"Trident Maple" Acer Buergerianum

[mashby]

Hi. I have 2 trees that I bought from a nursery, both tagged as "Trident Maple Acer Buergerianum". When I bought the trees they were completely defoliated. When the leaves started growing out, it became apparent tht the trees were not both "Trident Maple Acer Buergerianum". The small tree (200mm) looks like a "Trident Maple" Acer Buergerianum with the traditional 3 lobed trident maple leaf.

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Whereas the 2nd tree (6oomm) looks nothing like the smaler tree. It has considerably smaller leaves which are rounded but still with 3 lobed leaves.

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Can anyone tell me the difference between the 2 trees? Also, should they receive the same watering and fertilizer regime and sun conditions as each other? I ask this, because the taller tree's leaves tend to appear to burn at the tips of the leaves, dry out and curl inwards.
I would appreciate any feedback
Thanks

[shibui]

The second tree is still Trident maple. It looks like it has (one of?) the leaf diseases that was discussed at length earlier in the year by Bretts and Melaquin (I think). They came up with a fungicide that appears to have cured the problem. Mine sometimes get this or something similar but get over it later in the year. Others on the forum are telling us they have had trees waste away and die. Hoping yours recovers.

[Bretts]

Well Isn't that intresting

See here Mashby
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=456
and here
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=3198

As I said in PM I would recomend you take them both back for a refund.

I will be starting a new thread on this issue soon.

[craigw60]

When you raise trees from seed there is often some variation in leaf form. I suspect this is the case here. To buy diseased stock from a nursery is not that flash. This leaf fungal problem has been around for a few years now. But I would have thought a nurseryman would be right on to it.

[Bretts]

When you raise trees from seed there is often some variation in leaf form. I suspect this is the case here

It would be hard to see any variation as the leaves are so deformed by the fungus

If you have some info on this Fungus Craig I would love to hear it. We still don't have a name for it?

[Joel]

Could it be a downy mildew distorting new leaves as they grow?

Joel

[Bretts]

That's a big possibility Joel. It could also be any one from the Phyllosticta and Septoria family or Anthracnose.
Treatment is much the same for all I gather except It is recommended that the fungus is identified for the treatment to be specific.
I think this is a good reference.
http://www.utextension.utk.edu/publicat ... /SP546.pdf
It even shows a trident with Anthracnose
It states usual treatment is too replace the tree unless it is valuable or of historical importance because treatment is ongoing.
It is not a matter of killing it and it is gone.
Maybe in bonsai we can rid the tree of it as we would give much better treatment but until that is shown I think it should be treated as in incurable yet manageable disease.
I guess you would want to treat the tree through Winter into spring and from what I have observed I would treat again when any reduction of foliage is carried out.
The other problem is that the treatments are often toxic

Fungicide sprays may be used to control foliar diseases
of high-value trees or trees with a history of disease. Fungicides
generally have to be applied before and during infection.
Since most fungicides act as a protectant, little control
should be expected after symptom development. In certain
cases, fungicides may be injected into shade trees to prevent
infection from diseases such as Dutch elm disease.
While worker exposure is decreased by injecting the fungicide
into root flares at the base of the trunk, the tree is
wounded during the process. As with foliar applications,
trunk injections generally have to be repeated indefinitely
and should be viewed as a regular maintenance item and not
a one-time treatment to cure a particular disease. Trees of
low value or little historical significance that are defoliated
annually by foliar diseases may be good candidates for replacement
with disease-resistant species or cultivars. For
specific information about chemical control of tree diseases
contact your county Extension office, Division of Forestry
office or a professional arborist certified by the International
Society of Arboriculture.

[Joel]

Being endoparasitic, the fungus is actually inside the cells of the host tree. This makes it VERY difficult to kill without harming the host.

Downy mildew is actually fairly common. That is why i suggested it could be it. There are hundreds if not thousands of fungi that cause similar symptoms though.

Joel

[craigw60]

I don't really know anything about this maple problem. It has been around for about 10- 15 years I would guess. I would have thought if it was a downy mildew it would show up as a powder on the leaves, where as this disease shows up as a leaf deformity. Its severity seems to vary from season to season, this year we had a very cool wet spring and the problem was not bad and only appeared for about one month. In warmer seasons it tends to linger a little longer. It has always disappeared by december for me, and the trees then grow as normal. I have heard of a grower in Ballarat who lost some good imported tridents from it a couple of years ago. I hate using any chemicals so have never attempted to control it and as I said by early summer the trees are back on track.
Craig

[mashby]

Thanks Craig

[Joel]

I don't really know anything about this maple problem. It has been around for about 10- 15 years I would guess. I would have thought if it was a downy mildew it would show up as a powder on the leaves, where as this disease shows up as a leaf deformity. Its severity seems to vary from season to season, this year we had a very cool wet spring and the problem was not bad and only appeared for about one month. In warmer seasons it tends to linger a little longer. It has always disappeared by december for me, and the trees then grow as normal. I have heard of a grower in Ballarat who lost some good imported tridents from it a couple of years ago. I hate using any chemicals so have never attempted to control it and as I said by early summer the trees are back on track.
Craig

Downy is different to powdery mildew. Downy mildew is internal. Its symptoms are differnet on different plants. On grapes, it shows as yellowish blotches. Here is a pic of in on roses. Totally different again. But it describes how it is systemic in the plant.

http://plant-disease.ippc.orst.edu/dise ... cordID=985

Joel.

[MelaQuin]

The advice is right. Pot these trees back into their original pots and take them back. The work to rid them of the fungal problem is only worth it if the tree is well advanced as a bonsai. You can pick up similar or better starters from a bonsai nursery that are trouble free.