ausbonsai black pine team project

[jarryd]

i have just received a pine i purchased off ebay, the tree is a 1979 japanese black pine, which appears healthy yet has been allowed to outgrow its design.

my knowledge of black pine bonsai is limited, and that is why i am hoping that anyone with any input be it styling, general health aspects of this tree my chime in so that i aswell as other interested members may benefit, with this being a continued progression over time.

i am hoping that members here will help me guide this tree to reach a more aesthetic design

my plan for the tree so far is:

#1
move the tree into a large collander or pond basket planted into a very free draining mix, fertilise heavily in order to create a very healthy tree

Q1
what time of year is best to do this, can i do it soon with just a slip potting with minor root teasing, or wait untill autumn or next spring. aswell as whether planting into pure diatomite will be a suitable medium. what fert should be used, i prefer organics, and what quantity

#2
once the tree is healthy reduce the height of the tree aswell as branching with the hopes of forcing back budding on the old branches.

Q2
once again what will be the best time to do a large reduction in order to force back budding

#3
now asuming the tree has pushed some buds back on the branching the tree will be becoming more compact, one this occurs the tree will be wired into a basic design.

Q3
will be what ideas people have as to styling so feel free to post verts in reply to this question.

#4
now the tree will hopefully be compact and have a basic style and the tree will enter a refinment stage.

Q4
what techniques do people use in order to reduce the trees needles aswell as removing old needles, decandling methods etc

i hope this will help me learn more about pines aswell as helping others benefit from this trees development. and hopefully after a period of time the tree begins to look like a bonsai once again,

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kind regards jarryd

[stymie]

Hi Jarryd.
I wonder if this article will give you any help. It is based on the results of experimental techniques.
http://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATPine%20Pruning.html

[jarryd]

update on the tree thanks to the link provided i was able to get a fairly indepth understanding of the next step with this pine. as the tree was actively growing and hadnt been pruned for some time i have also begun a fert schedule i removed the old apex. A few weeks after this i removed a small portion or each of the upper branches allowng sunlight to penetrate the inner structure of the tree. the result has been prolific back budding on the branches i am very impressed as these branches are very old and stiff. i am very excited by this tree as i have finally decided on a styling direction today whilst veiwing it, and i beleive it will turn out to be very nice.

[Greth]

Love that trunk, what a nice tree, Jarryd.
Thanks for the link Stymie, has given me some help with my tree.

[bingh]

Ken may be able to give advice - he has a lot of experience with BP's

Brian

[jarryd]

i have been progressively reducing the foliage on this tree and now it has had its final reduction of the lowest branches now i will wait for the autumn flush of growth. i have opened this tree right up to allow the sunlight into the tree to induce backbudding this sunlight and hard prunning has resulted in many advantagous buds .

now i shall wait for it to fill back up next spring it will undergo its first wiring. i am looking forward to that point when the trees beauty will be revealed

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[anttal63]

Hey jarryd, Nice and open. Not understanding your climate up there and wether it gets cold or not, be careful with any late new growth in winter. Down here we usually get the flush after mid summer decandling and let all harden off for winter.

[jarryd]

cheers ant i will keep an eye on it we still have a fair bit of time left for growth. the trees new buds are bulging on the oldwood branches to the extent that i am quite surprised so i have been removing growth tips in stages after having removed the old apex with the hope it will open the canopy and suply sunlight aswell as redirecting energy into the new buds. now i'll just fert heavily and wait untill i am happy with the trees health and density then begin the first styling probably late next spring, what are peoples opinion on the use of fert during winter? should it just be reduced or replaced by something without nitrogen like seasol

thanks jarryd

[Jarrod]

Lovely. I wouldn't be taking anymore foilage off till next year. Needs needles to feed new needles/candles.

Feed it heavily right through. I don't hold off food.

[anttal63]

cheers ant i will keep an eye on it we still have a fair bit of time left for growth. the trees new buds are bulging on the oldwood branches to the extent that i am quite surprised so i have been removing growth tips in stages after having removed the old apex with the hope it will open the canopy and suply sunlight aswell as redirecting energy into the new buds. now i'll just fert heavily and wait untill i am happy with the trees health and density then begin the first styling probably late next spring, what are peoples opinion on the use of fert during winter? should it just be reduced or replaced by something without nitrogen like seasol

thanks jarryd

Like junis ,pines need foliage as jezz has pointed out, otherwise trees get weak and people wonder why they kark it. Timing of ferts is more important when you have a finished tree. For now give it heaps of nitro. late autumn and winter yates liquid tomatoe is the one. Come spring she'll be poppn like a mother.

[kcpoole]

I have not niticed this thread before but it looks healthy

The verticalish Section aboive the first branches does not look mich thinner thana the base of the trunk. Are you thinking to remove this sectoin for taper? and regrowing the top.

I wouldn't be removing any more foliage for now, but if you want to wire, I would put it on now. I have had trees with wire on for up to 18 months no worries

Ken

[anttal63]

I have not niticed this thread before but it looks healthy

The verticalish Section aboive the first branches does not look mich thinner thana the base of the trunk. Are you thinking to remove this sectoin for taper? and regrowing the top.

I wouldn't be removing any more foliage for now, but if you want to wire, I would put it on now. I have had trees with wire on for up to 18 months no worries

Ken

I dont know how you guys get to leave wire on pines for so long. mine are cutting in with in 4-5 months. Super feeding???

[jarryd]

ken i am not planning on wiring just yet as their is lots of small new buds just starting to develop and are only between 2 - 3 mm in size atm. i dont want to brush these of when wiring as these are what i have been working hard to acheive, also i dont wish to stress the tree anymore now. it shall just rest till next the end of next spring and i will begin its initial styling.

this tree is 11 years older then i am started in 1979 by its previous owner, so i dont want to stuff it up haha but when i have finished its first restyle you guys will understand why this tree excites me

[Bretts]

Looking forward to That Jarryd

Antonio that Tomatoe food is NPK analysis: 8 : 3 : 10.2 + TE

I thought a higher P whould be the go for Autumn winter? Can you explain this?
Also do you know what TE stands for?

[anttal63]

Looking forward to That Jarryd

Antonio that Tomatoe food is NPK analysis: 8 : 3 : 10.2 + TE

I thought a higher P whould be the go for Autumn winter? Can you explain this?
Also do you know what TE stands for?

Sure i can explain it.

Great budding, great hardening off and great trunk base thickening. It works wonderfully for me and has been for the last 5 years!

NO idea what it sais on the back. No idea what TE means. Not too much care either. It just works for me. Sorry brett, if you want something more theoretical or scientific than that, you are asking the wrong guy. I do my thing and then let the trees talk to me.