how to obtain taper in trees-discussion

[Jamie]

hi guys

i want to start a discussion about experiences in growing taper on stock whether it be nursery stock or whichever. no i dont have any trees with super huge taper at this particular time, but i do have some stuff on the way that i am trying different things with.

we know that there the normal way of getting taper by cutting back to a new leader and growing on, or using sacrifice branches to help fatten bases.


what i want to know is has anyone got anytechniques that dont use the idea of chopping back and growing on, obviously there would be the need of using sacrifice branches, but i would be interested to see if someone has a secret technique that will do this ???

what has made me think of it is actually Brians post on flat bottoming figs for good nebari, it shows some good taper in it and i was curious as to it being possible to continually just keeping the apex under control to push energy into the lower trunk.

this is obviuously more related to decidous or broadleafed trees.

jamie

[MattA]

For me the secret is ground growing, thickening is much faster than in a pot. I grew a gingko in the ground for 8 yrs. all heavy upright shoots were constantly cut out and the lower branchs only pruned once a year, 3' tall it went from 1" to 4" diameter with great taper & no heavy cuts to hide.

The other that is amazing me is a jacaranda, from under 1" to about 2.5" in 18mths. It had first & back branch when it was put in the ground, now has 3rd & 4th started. It does have a shoot about 2" above the soil that i am allowing to grow freely to thicken the base even more. Another long term big tree project..

For those that cant grow in the ground, big grow boxes like alot use. The more root a plant has the more growth it can put out. You can let it run free to thicken or you can continually cut it back to produce ramification.

Matt

[Jamie]

that is what i am using at the moment is grow boxes, and i am seeing quite a bit of growth going on, especially with a fig that has settled in to the box and is just putting on more and more growth, that is one that i am doing a bit differently though as it is a clump that has many trunks that i have actually tied together, it will be a different tree.


does anyone else have thoughts on the ideas of gaining taper in trees?

[EdwardH]

With trees that readily fuse together like figs, you can grow a number of plants all pointing to a central point so that they look like a cone. Tie the ends at the height that you want and feed, feed, feed. In a few years they will all fuse and you get a base as wide as you want. As the trees fuse together you end up with a fluted appearance. The wider the base, the more trees you need to start with. You get an "instant" taper and a pretty quick sumo base with a good taper. I have not tried this as yet however I have read about this technique in a number of books.

[Jamie]

this is one technique i am looking at trying edward, i bought 150 fig seeds to do this with i am waiting for them to germinate, then will have to wait for them to become whips to wrap around a frame. i was going to use trident maples but they dont grow aswell as i like up here and then i thought elms but it is possible they will keep there rounded trunk shapes and not fuse to well, so figs it is, i will be posting a progression of it all once i get them to germinate

[Chris]

That sounds like a great idea EdwardH i have three figs that are all straight and i think this is somthing i can do.
i have placed lots of trees back in the ground and you can see the diference in growth.

great post jamie

[Jamie]

thanks chris,

from what i take you are planning on using the chop and grow method? if so could you do a bit of a photograph diary, even if you dont post it send it to me and i will sort it all out for you showing what methods you use. i think it is one thing that hasnt been recorded overly well here and will be a great resource in things to come, i also intend on doing the frame work fusing technique, and i am going to hopefully find something i can use to show sacrificial branching to obtain thickness

this will be a photographic diary on these techniques so i would like to find as many techniques as i can for a full how-to thread on as many ground growing/grow box techniques


jamie

[Jarrod]

Correct root work, as in cutting all vertical roots and cutting back to finer roots during repot helps to get a good taper and flow from roots to trunk. This is a good method and I hve seen the results.

[Jamie]

Correct root work, as in cutting all vertical roots and cutting back to finer roots during repot helps to get a good taper and flow from roots to trunk. This is a good method and I hve seen the results.

any chance of pics mate all good if you dont, these are things i will be testing

[Bretts]

One trick that is not often advised is leaving stubs when cutting the sacrafice branchers off. The tree heals the wood left behind and this increases the taper.
Can't say I have done it though
Might only be good for the fast growing trees that have decent density wood like most deciduous.

[kcpoole]

Check out Dugx Bonsai for Ultra fused trunks with maples and olives
The same can be done with Any trees that fuse well ( figs)

http://www.dugzbonsai.com/ All grown on a frame of wire or wood Blank

Ken

[sreeve]

Adding to Ken’s advice for root flare development, I believe the lady who started Bibo Nursery at Peats Ridge (unfortunately she passed away) used to fuse figs together. It must have been 15 – 20 years ago.

Now the figs have totally fused together but when you re-pot them you can still see the hollow inside.

View showing hollow August 2009.JPG

In addition to her trunk taper approach, I planted the tree over a tile to develop some surface roots. ……..
Yes it was similar to Graeme's fast grow method .........in conjunction with the tile being placed beneath the plant,

August 2009 showing root flare after 1 yr with tile beneath fig.JPG

Perhaps not quite on topic, but another method to get taper is the method I posted recently.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3562

Dad is in the process of using the same principle in the second plane, to get taper all around on a tree which was about 150mm (6” for us oldies) in diameter.

Interesting thread Jamie...there are quite a few ways to induce / reduce taper.

Regards
Steve

[Jamie]

dugz bonsai has been quite an inspiration for me and i am desperatly trying to get the whips needed to try the frame technique

i definately like they way that fig you have posted has been don steve, something to look into

i very much liked the way you and your dad induced taper on the tree steve, i will be very interested in seeing the next level you are talking about

i think i might try the technique by the lady who started bibo nursery,i think i can see a way of accomplishing this too

i have brought this topic up as you all know i have a fascination with sumo style trees, i want to be able to develop them with minimal scarring even though i do find scaring and uro to be a feature of trees, i am going to be using a technique where i will be hoping to grow smaller sacrifice branches low to pump energy into the trunk and make it swell right out, making it with smaller scars but more of them this way i will be able to turn them to a feature instead of having to try and heal a large scar, this is one theory i have.

i do want to try other techniques and test them all out to see what works the best though


jamie

[Grant Bowie]

Adding to Ken’s advice for root flare development, I believe the lady who started Bibo Nursery at Peats Ridge (unfortunately she passed away) used to fuse figs together. It must have been 15 – 20 years ago.

Now the figs have totally fused together but when you re-pot them you can still see the hollow inside.

View showing hollow August 2009.JPG

In addition to her trunk taper approach, I planted the tree over a tile to develop some surface roots. ……..
Yes it was similar to Graeme's fast grow method .........in conjunction with the tile being placed beneath the plant,

August 2009 showing root flare after 1 yr with tile beneath fig.JPG

Perhaps not quite on topic, but another method to get taper is the method I posted recently.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3562

Dad is in the process of using the same principle in the second plane, to get taper all around on a tree which was about 150mm (6” for us oldies) in diameter.

Interesting thread Jamie...there are quite a few ways to induce / reduce taper.

Regards
Steve

Ruth Brown was the lady at Bibo nursery.

[Grant Bowie]

Links to some article on the Root Wrap technique, specifically Black Pine but suitable for some others.

viewtopic.php?f=104&t=2346&start=0

viewtopic.php?f=104&t=2335

Originated by Max Candy many years ago. Here is one of Max's figs; effectively the last tree he created before he died.
This tree is on display at the NBPCA until end of April or the first potential frost in Canberra; whichever comes first.

Ficus rubiginosa.jpg

Grant