Paper Bonsai Grow Pots

[buddaboy]

Hey guys, I was surfing around this morning when I found this link on "boinsai4me.com".
http://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATPaperBonsaiPots.html


Anybody tried this before? I know its not pottery but it is pots.
buddaboy

[Glenda]

I was reading the very same article yesterday! It looks interesting. But wasn't there some discussion yesterday about cement fondue and the lime content? Wouldn't this have the same problem?

Glenda

[kcpoole]

There is a guy in Eastern Europe I have deen doing this as well
Called Papercrete and used for all sorts of stuff
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papercrete
Video of him in Croatia http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sddOnjZhL0

ken

[Joel]

Timbercrete is even better but hempcrete is the best. Both of those are bullet proof too!

Joel

[Jamie]

lime content is cement is only a problem when the cement hasnt fully cured, it may feel hard after a day or so but the curing hasnt been complete it can take upwards of 2-3months to cure enough that the lime doesnt leach out, i want to try this aswell, what i would do is dry it in the sun for a few days then i would consider putting them in the oven at the lowest possible temp for a few hours, this would help with the curing, but with cement the slower you can dry it out the stronger it will be so a bit of a catch 22.

i would be leaving it in i nice full sun position for the 2-3 months then i would be happy to pot them up

[kcpoole]

From what I understand about concrete. is that it cures by chemical reaction and that is not accellerated by elevated temps. Raising the temp when wet will evaporate the moisture off the surface thus cracking and other defects by uneven expansion
that is why large scale pours are usually chilled and temperature controlled to to take the self generated heat away.

The Vid I posted mentions coating the surface with a sealer to stop the leaching

Ken

[kcpoole]

Timbercrete is even better but hempcrete is the best. Both of those are bullet proof too!

Joel

Any long fibers will work as and aggregate I assume

[Jonden]

I have a couple of large concrete pots made about 35 years ago by a chap in Cumberland bonsai club, he cured them by leaving them to soak in an old fish pond for about 2 months. They are still in perfect condition no cracks, no leaching.
he gave me his recipe for the concrete mix, but unfortunately i have lost it, I know he put stainless steel reinforcing rods in them.
Cheers,
Jonden

[Mitchell]

I prefer just using straight cement. I tried adding the paper pulp, but then your mixture looses the ability to flow. You can't make it perfectly smooth like clay or cement. Good for pressing into molds though.

Leave them in the sun for 2 hours, then in the over on low for 3 hours or less. Fill any cracks then back in the over for another half an hour to dry the filled cracks. The cracks from putting it in the oven generally are only small hair lines, not cracked through completely.

[Jamie]

the paper is supposed to be mush mitchell, it is supposed to give it some guts so you can press it in tight and build walls. it also helps make the pot a little lighter. if you are having trouble with it put a bit more water in.

[Mitchell]

What I mean is, clay / cement dissolve in water. Paper does not, it becomes mush yet still helds its structure. On a clay pot to finish, you can wet it back then smooth the sides with a flat edge spatula and it becomes silky smooth. When you try to do the same on the paper pots, the mush does not go silky smooth, it leaves a rough texture.

See the attached picture, if you check the rest of the pots he created, they are all a pretty rough finish. Even if you press it hard into a mold it still leaves these. So not a big issue, just you can tell they are not clay and can't get a mirror smooth finish.

[kcpoole]

Does the surface of the pot realay matter?

If you relly want it smooth then you could render it with a sand cement mix after taking it out of the mould.
Some potters actually try and create pots with intentionally cracked finishes anyway so thi smethod helps there too

These sort of pots are really intended to use as cheap training pots anyway wher the appearaance does not really matter

ken

[Mitchell]

Does the surface of the pot realay matter?

If you relly want it smooth then you could render it with a sand cement mix after taking it out of the mould.
Some potters actually try and create pots with intentionally cracked finishes anyway so thi smethod helps there too

These sort of pots are really intended to use as cheap training pots anyway wher the appearaance does not really matter

ken

No the surface does not matter, what so ever in this scenario. I was just stating the fact that a smooth finish is hard to attain.
Your right in the fact that some potters actually try and create cracked finishes, I wasn't talking about a "cracked" finish though.

If you really want it to be a smooth finish, you could render it as I have tried, it works but then you could just use cement in the first place instead of paper clay. Does remove some weight though.

They may be intended to be used as cheap training pots, but with a bit more finishing, they could become semi-display pots.

[Lynette]

If you want a really smooth finish in paper clay, Blackwattle Clays have a range called gold label paper clay. It has a very fine paper and can be smoothed and burnished. It comes in several types eg, earthenware, stoneware and porcelain. I can't rembember if there is a teracotta.
Lynette

[Handy Mick]

How have we got on with these pots?
Did anyone use the polypropylene fibres?
Is it worth doing or what?