emergency re-pot

[Luke]

8 weeks ago i collected a few natives with a mate, they were all potted into 300mm garden pots using only ozmacote premium potting mix then kept well watered, in a shady and protected position.
In the last few days the large Syzygium has ran into trouble (or i have ran it into trouble)!!!!!! Im pretty sure i have jumped the gun and fertilized it a bit early and the soil seems to have settled and gone stagnet, the leaves are drying out and there is also a possible mite/bug infection in the soil...
I doubt flushing the soil out with lots of water will do any good?? so i will be doing an emergency re-pot tonight.
(I am still very new to bonsai and have much to learn about different trees needs) Advice and other options would be really helpfull...
I am planning to gently wash all the soil from what is left of the young roots and pot into a 350mm wide 200mm deep teracota bowl, with a mix of 50:50 - attapulgite and bonsai soil, then seasol and at least a month of shade:!:
-After collection 8 weeks ago...

FT22.jpg

FT44.jpg

-Dry leaves today

dry leaves.JPG

Again.. im still learning by trial and error!!! any help, advice and info on similar experiences would be most appreciated!
thanks
luke

[Luke]

Also... id like to find out what the white build up on the top of the soil is?

100_2021.JPG

There is some on my collected Melaleuca aswell! but it is growing great and has sprouted like crazy
cheers

[63pmp]

You must sieve osmocote potting mixes, it has lots of fines in it. Use a 2-3mm sieve and discard the fines to the garden. This potting mix has wetting agents added that hold the moisture, it remains very wet for a long time.

Paul

[Luke]

You must sieve osmocote potting mixes, it has lots of fines in it. Use a 2-3mm sieve and discard the fines to the garden. This potting mix has wetting agents added that hold the moisture, it remains very wet for a long time.
Paul

thanks.. yeah the only reason i used it is because its all i had at the time... by the time we got back from roaming around the currumbin rainforest in the rain like wild ape men, bunnings and nurserys were closed. Since then iv learnt i could also just have mixed in some spare aquarium pebbles and some of dads succulent mix .. its amazing what is learnt month to month when your a beginner! I cant help but wonder what i'm doing wrong now that ill realize in a months time.
oh well, live n learn!
Im not holding my breath on this tree surviving... but still hoping... its got so much character! It will never be a text book bonsai but a freaky little container housed tree.. for sure

wellll peoples... if thats it for help and advice, i mite just bite the bullet and get stuck into it....
cheers
luke

[Jamie]

mate with the right care now after this emergency repot you should be ok, it might be a little slow this year now thats all but it might surprise you and power. keep it in the shade and just super thrive and seasol, dont move it until you see some good growth then only morning sun.

[Luke]

mate with the right care now after this emergency repot you should be ok, it might be a little slow this year now thats all but it might surprise you and power. keep it in the shade and just super thrive and seasol, dont move it until you see some good growth then only morning sun.

cheers man, fingers crossed!

i mite just bite the bullet and get stuck into it....

....After the footy of course GO THE TITANS!!!!!

[63pmp]

No, you cannot just add some spare aqaurium pebbles and cactus mix. Osmocote is about 30% fines, it needs to be sieved because the fines hold too much water which means not enough air. Obviously you learned wrong otherwise you would have sieved the mix. The white stuff on top is unrecognizable because of your dodgy photo, so that's probably why no one responded. Your heading in the right direction with repotting, but chances are the plant won't survive because you treated it wrong. Sorry you didn't get the answer you wanted.

Paul

[Luke]

No, you cannot just add some spare aqaurium pebbles and cactus mix. Osmocote is about 30% fines, it needs to be sieved because the fines hold too much water which means not enough air. Obviously you learned wrong otherwise you would have sieved the mix. The white stuff on top is unrecognizable because of your dodgy photo, so that's probably why no one responded. Your heading in the right direction with repotting, but chances are the plant won't survive because you treated it wrong. Sorry you didn't get the answer you wanted.

Paul

hey paul, dont be sorry for me! im not i indeed make mistakes! and i learn the hard way sometimes!!. Although i wouldnt have it any other way, no pain no gain as they say! Interesting things iv found in the broken pieces of failed attempts!! I believe there is never nothing possitive in anything , i do my best to find it!!! > if this tree dies it will become host to the ariel roots of a future ficus arrangement. If it survives, i have nicked and applied root hormone gel where i want the future root spread... either way..?..
Hmmm if i had been thinking at the time(not over enthused and pissy) ... The Contents Information on the bag would have been read , and i would have probably chosen a different path?(ie wrap roots in wet towels and wait till the next day to get proper soil mix)?... But.. it is what it is, and i did what i did!!! All in all, they 'are' still alive, though its a shame i assumed the potting mix was stock and fair-draining! and now i have another 4 fragile native root systems to carefully bare root and repot. But to tell you the truth, i will enjoy every second !! even knowing the odds of survival are stacked against!! The Syzygium transplant last night went as planned, and im gunna bet that trees as ugly and hard lived as that one, will fight to the bitter end! .. so.. 1 down 4 to go.
P.S. hey... i cant help but think that removing the 30% fine material from the osmocote would have been just as pointless as adding 30 % grit and cacti mix, because the soil contains a wetting agent? What do you think?
P.P.S. i did state in my first post that i was and still am an amateur and very much in the process of learning n discovering! i was surprised by the apparent negativity/anger in your post! anywayzzz

..Regarding the blurry picture.... ohwell! it happens!
..Also.. Excuse my take on english, it also happens!

peace
luke

[63pmp]

I use osmocote regular mix as it is my only decent source of composted pine bark. Last year I used premium blend as that was all I could get, I was very surprised at how much fines was in it. My standard potting mix procedure is to sieve the potting mix over a 5mm mesh to remove large particles, and then sieve the smaller stuff over a 2mm sieve to remove the fines. I usually do 4 bags of mix at a time, I usually get a very full bag of course bark that I use to top dress pots, about 2 bags of 2 - 5mm stuff; which I put in my mix with an equal amount of sieved zeolite. The fines, about a bags worth, are thrown away.

The wetting agent in the mix stops the pine bark and wood chips from becoming water repellent if they dry out, it doesn't actually hold water itself. Pore size and soil depth is what dictates how much water the potting mix will hold. The fine particles reduce pore space size which is what water-logs the mix. Since there is so much fines in osmcote potting mix, it nearly impossible to dilute it out with sand or course material.

Rick Moquin did an excellent article on potting mixes, here's a link;

http://bonsaiwonders-art.blogspot.com/2 ... ayers.html


Paul

[Luke]

I use osmocote regular mix as it is my only decent source of composted pine bark. Last year I used premium blend as that was all I could get, I was very surprised at how much fines was in it. My standard potting mix procedure is to sieve the potting mix over a 5mm mesh to remove large particles, and then sieve the smaller stuff over a 2mm sieve to remove the fines. I usually do 4 bags of mix at a time, I usually get a very full bag of course bark that I use to top dress pots, about 2 bags of 2 - 5mm stuff; which I put in my mix with an equal amount of sieved zeolite. The fines, about a bags worth, are thrown away.

The wetting agent in the mix stops the pine bark and wood chips from becoming water repellent if they dry out, it doesn't actually hold water itself. Pore size and soil depth is what dictates how much water the potting mix will hold. The fine particles reduce pore space size which is what water-logs the mix. Since there is so much fines in osmcote potting mix, it nearly impossible to dilute it out with sand or course material.

Rick Moquin did an excellent article on potting mixes, here's a link;

http://bonsaiwonders-art.blogspot.com/2 ... ayers.html


Paul

very clear and informative paul! thanks for the post mate!
i am just taking my first break from Rick Moquin's article!... wow! thanks again.
luke

[63pmp]

I'm a bit surprised that other people on the forum haven't come forward with thoughts or ideas, I know there are people here that collect from the wild and rarely need a reason to discuss there adventures.

The thing about sieving mixes is all about getting oxygen to the roots. The next point to consider is whether you need an organic mix to put your yamadori in. All organic potting mixes suffer from pathogens that exist in the mix, phytophora, verticillium, pythium being ones to consider. A collected tree is a weakened tree, and putting it into a mix that contains these pathogens must raise the probably of the tree getting infected, a certainty if the mix becomes anaerobic. In future perhaps consider an inorganic mix, such as perlite, or a mix of perlite and crushed brick, or some other inert material. Perlite is sterile and breaths well while retaining a high humidity, use a medium sized horticultural grade, cover it with something light proof to keep the roots dark (I use coarse pine bark on tridents that I dig from the field that I sometimes plant in pure perlite, but elevated planks of wood, or heavy mesh, over the surface will work) Some plants species will root better if the cut end is kept dark. Another aspect is humidity control for the canopy, a tree collected from the wild will not be able to take up water adeqautely for a good while, consider a clear plastic tent to aid moisture control. One more thought is do not fertilise until the tree is pushing growth; trees do not take up nutrients when stressed (but microbes do!).

Paul

[IS2SXC]

Great advice

Well looking from what Paul has given u your all set

all i can say is when i collect trees with little roots i normally put it in a shaded position with NO WIND (wind will kill weak trees) , i use gladwrap to form a tent sometimes to hold moisture for the tree and having this i dont have to water too much too affect the hormone gel i put in the roots.probably once every4 days to a week depending on weather

and try and cut off all leaves and probably cut the leaves at the tips in half so they dont wilt


this is only what i do and its worked for me but remember keep moist away from wind

hope this helps

[Luke]

I'm a bit surprised that other people on the forum haven't come forward with thoughts or ideas, I know there are people here that collect from the wild and rarely need a reason to discuss there adventures. Paul

im young , naive, gung ho and on another planet . im not surprised one bit!
i have learnt and realized a great deal in reading your posts Paul... many thanks!

hope this helps

indeed it helps mate! cheers!
....have you any more info?
im keen to learn and share use of root hormone gel on collected material and (emergency re-pots), i have experiments pending.
Hope they dont all die


ALSO has anyone experience in over-wintering mums? i have 5 in root over rock plantings, housed in an upside down fish tank!.. (really hoping they survive!)
cheers
from
luke