[I.D} Pine cones and needles

[alpineart]

Here is a very interesting pine for identification , whilst i have had my eye on this for some time, i couldn't collect the cones until the Mini Tornado ripped through Myrtleford last week .I collected these cones and foliage yesterday from the upper apex before the shredders destroyed the tree .

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This is a 2 needle pine 25-30 feet high ,estimated at around 90-100 years old , pyramidal in shape , very dense foliage ,cones in groups of 2-3 and needle length in 30-50mm and it has a reddish brown shoot .Old cone appear to remain on the tree for several years as do the needles . I hope to do an accurate ring count on the butt before it is burnt . Have a stab at an I.D . Cheers Alpineart

[NBPCA]

Looks a lot like a Japanese Black pine in every way but is probably Pinus leucodermis. Saw one near Canberra and it had me fooled for a while but the imature cones color gave it away.

Grant

[alpineart]

Hi Grant , the cones pictured are actually the mature cones , attached more pics of the immature cone "8-10mm in length" , the fallen tree , and the bark which is 4-6mm thick at the base of the tree and has very thin 15-20mm plates.

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I will do a search on your I.D .The tree and all its features looks more like a Mountain Pine , PINUS MUGO ,rarther than a JBP . There is another tree here which again has all theses same features BUT the bark is deeply furrowed up to 30mm similar to the Desert Ash .Growth habit is the same as this specimen .Cheers Alpine

[NBPCA]

Cones on Mugo are much smaller. The needles of Leucodermis are a little bit coarser and the mature cone looks almost the same as japanese black, however the immature cone when it is full size but before hardening off is a different color. I will have to consult my book at home.

Grant

[Webos]

Hey there Alpine, Collect Cones and Propagate. I'll take a hundred of these!

[dayne]

could be jbp looks very similar ill take any leftover cones hahaha as for 100 years old not sure when the first seeds got here i thought in the late 50's dont think there would be any 100 yrs old they do grow quick in the ground though

[alpineart]

Hey there Alpine, Collect Cones and Propagate. I'll take a hundred of these!

Hi Webos , i've collected dozens of cones and the seed is already falling out . I plan to grow as many as possible .Cheers Alpine

[Grant Bowie]

Does the mature cone have small spines over it? (Does it feel slightly spikey to the touch?)

Was the 2nd year immature cone green or purple? (1st year is the small round cone you showed)

Grant

[Grant Bowie]

The small 1st year cone looks very spikey, unlike JBP and mugo, so I am still leaning towards p Leucodermis; the Bosnian pine.

Grant

[alpineart]

could be jbp looks very similar ill take any leftover cones hahaha as for 100 years old not sure when the first seeds got here i thought in the late 50's dont think there would be any 100 yrs old they do grow quick in the ground though

Hi Dayne , i dont believe its a JBP ,they were dredging gold in Ovens and slucing in the area from 1878, this is around the time when Oven was settled .The Ovens Hotel dates back to the late 1800's This tree is in the area of the old township now demolished .The park was ripped to shreds by the numurous twisters that hit Myrtleford and Ovens last week , i'm asuming this was one of the four original trees from that era all destroyed.Cheers Alpine

[alpineart]

Does the mature cone have small spines over it? (Does it feel slightly spikey to the touch?)

Was the 2nd year immature cone green or purple? (1st year is the small round cone you showed)

Grant

Hi Grant , this years cone 8-10mm has very soft spine shaped hairs on it reddish - brown shoot with pollen flower emerging {second pics} the first pics {$2coin} are last years cones ,it does feel slightly spikey . they have seed and open on collection at room temp' 2nd year cones are old grey color closed with no seed and the 3rd and possibly 4th years cones are grey and decaying .All the cones on the tree are closed .Definately no green or purple like Leucodermis .However the plantation further up the road has a similar shaped cone slightly larger and deep fissured bark ,i'm assuming after a google search today that they maybe Pinus Leucodermis var ANTOINE. I will bring up the original post .Cheers Alpine