Japanese Black Pines

[PeterW]

I am coming to the end of the pictures that i have of my friends collection. I have saved these four to last intentionally.
They have each been grown in styro boxes half buried in the ground and the roots have been allowed to grow through the box to thicken them up. They are all aproximately 35cm tall and have been in training for between 5 and 6 years. They have been reduced in height from about 50 or 60 cm. There are some problem roots but to fix them would be more problematic then to simply live with them. It is probably a bit of a trade off in some ways. If you want to have a nice big trunk and in reasonable time, you trade off the root system. If you only have a handfull of them maybe you can keep them under control by lifting every two years or so.
If you have grown Black pines you will understand that to get nice close to the trunk tight ramification like this, it takes time. To do it in 5 to 6 years is pretty good going.
I hope you have enjoyed these trees as much as i have enjoyed them and enjoyed sharing them with you.
Yours in Bonsai,
Peter

BlackPine01.jpg

BlackPine02.jpg

BlackPine03.jpg

BlackPine04.jpg

[Asus101]

It is probably a bit of a trade off in some ways. If you want to have a nice big trunk and in reasonable time, you trade off the root system. If you only have a handfull of them maybe you can keep them under control by lifting every two years or so.

You can have a perfect root system and a thick trunk and have a show quality JBP in ten years.
I must say I think only Mick Balzary (sp?) has pine has good as these are. Fine examples, indeed.
They have nice movement, good bark, and nicely refined needle work.

[PeterW]

It is probably a bit of a trade off in some ways. If you want to have a nice big trunk and in reasonable time, you trade off the root system. If you only have a handfull of them maybe you can keep them under control by lifting every two years or so.

You can have a perfect root system and a thick trunk and have a show quality JBP in ten years.

Yours must be well on the way then. I will eagerly await your post.
Peter

[anttal63]

some of these nebaris i could live with. once they get out of the ground they're rippas! love his work but sad about the commercial truth

[Asus101]

It is probably a bit of a trade off in some ways. If you want to have a nice big trunk and in reasonable time, you trade off the root system. If you only have a handfull of them maybe you can keep them under control by lifting every two years or so.

You can have a perfect root system and a thick trunk and have a show quality JBP in ten years.

Yours must be well on the way then. I will eagerly await your post.
Peter

My first lot of seed died, I didn't work fast enough to prevent dampening off.
You can read about the technique in Bonsai today Issue 12 and issue 20. But if you dont want to take it, dont.
There is a good one on cascade pine in 7 that can be done during the others.

[PeterW]

some of these nebaris i could live with. once they get out of the ground they're rippas! love his work but sad about the commercial truth

I have taken on board what you have said about the nabari on a few of these trees and looked quite intensely since at other conifers, mainly pines. The majority have either no nabari whatsoever or nabari that the rules state as bad. I think that with the pines, we have to settle for a different look to the root surface. The trees that i looked at (lots of em) i didnt have a problem with any of them dispite the fact that the nabari wasnt pure. It has enlightened me a bit wioth respect to what i should consider as acceptable or not. Take a look at the nabari on number 3, you will see the nabari on the left of the tree is beautifull (IMO) and yet there is a wrap around root coming from behind the tree. And when i look at the tree, i dont stop at the nabari, like these sort of faults supposedly make your eye stop. At the end of the day, if you aim for perfection, you will be disappointed, thats a garenteed. Wish they were in my collection, and i wish jut one of them was in your collection too. Then id have 3 and you would only have two
Peter

[anttal63]

i actually like 2. the way it marry's with the trunk. get outta here i wantm all. i'd havem in my collection too make no mistake of that pete.

[63pmp]

Thanks for the photo's peter, these are nice trees.

It is rare for black pine to have good nebari, and these I feel are acceptable.

Many trees are well trained on top but lack a decent foundation below. I think a lot of the problem is getting stock that is properly trained in the first place.

I have spent the last four of five years concentrating on developing nebari and trunks on cuttings and seedlings, and have learned a lot about training stock plants in that time. I've also killed a lot of trees. The year before last I bought 30 JBP, supposedly 2 year old seedlings from a bonsai nursery in Sydney. When I repotted them they were at least four years old, many had a hidden root bound section left over from the previous seedling containers. I lost 50% of the trees in that first repotting, from stress caused from pruning and untangling roots. This year I can field plant them, though I'm probably rushing them.

I often find that people providing stock do not take the time to train the roots, they get a quick chop around the edges and potted up, this leaves the tangled wrap around appearance of roots you regular see. Perhaps the commercial people are not prepared to risk the high stock loses that occurs with root training, or the time it takes to do this, either way its hard to get good nebari on stock plants.

Thank's again for the photo's.

Paul

[Bretts]

I too like Asus have been inspired to grow JBP from seedling the proper way. I was inspired after attending a great weekend workshop called Bonsai by the Harbour in Sydney that is on every year.
A grower follows the tecnique to the letter in Bonsai Today #12 and he is getting some fantastic results. The seedlings have all roots removed in the red area of the trunk and treated as a cutting. This produces an excellet root spread from the get go. Following the article for ten years growing in terracota pots he has come out with some amazing root bases and trunks.
Here is me working on the roots on one of his of his 10 year old trees from seedling

Bonsai by the harbour weekend (38).jpg

Here is a better shot of the amazing root base and trunk.

Bonsai by the harbour weekend (35).jpg

This tree has another 10-20 years of training to become a masterpiece by slowly removing the sacrifice branches and creating the apex and branches. The grower is adamant that this cultivation is not viable comercialy in Australia but encourages us all to get in and do it for ourselves and Australia. It is material like this that will lead Australian Bonsai into the future.

There is a joke among his friends that he grows these pines so large because he is unable to style them A smaller version could be done from a change in technique at a smaller size.
I still wonder why the same can not be acomplished from normal JBP cuttings but I have not had the chance to ask?

Edit: You may notice a small 1 1/2 year old seedling in the bottom left hand corner of the picture with me in it. This is now in my collection after it was given to me for helping him out in his demonstration. So I am now about 2 1/2 years into having one of these for myself

[PeterW]

Thanks for the photo's peter, these are nice trees.

It is rare for black pine to have good nebari, and these I feel are acceptable.

Many trees are well trained on top but lack a decent foundation below. I think a lot of the problem is getting stock that is properly trained in the first place.

I have spent the last four of five years concentrating on developing nebari and trunks on cuttings and seedlings, and have learned a lot about training stock plants in that time. I've also killed a lot of trees. The year before last I bought 30 JBP, supposedly 2 year old seedlings from a bonsai nursery in Sydney. When I repotted them they were at least four years old, many had a hidden root bound section left over from the previous seedling containers. I lost 50% of the trees in that first repotting, from stress caused from pruning and untangling roots. This year I can field plant them, though I'm probably rushing them.

I often find that people providing stock do not take the time to train the roots, they get a quick chop around the edges and potted up, this leaves the tangled wrap around appearance of roots you regular see. Perhaps the commercial people are not prepared to risk the high stock loses that occurs with root training, or the time it takes to do this, either way its hard to get good nebari on stock plants.

Thank's again for the photo's.

Paul

Thanks Paul, maybe you could write up a bit of a progressional type of thing on them, i know many would be interested.
Peter

[anttal63]

soltan way to go! where there is a will there is a way. i'm managing to grow new roots on my pines, mugo, scotts, white and balck, 5 to 10 yrs old. if you can layer a pine you can also grow more roots. the problem is that when you have already too much ramification on top, needs to go backwards and run a little in order to be more aggressive with your roots. therefor get them on the way before too much developement on top or way too old. mind you i dont think age is a problem in this country unless some have imported something very old. it probably wont happen in a tight fitting bonsai pot. for me there is no excuse or cant. it is simply just a choice.

[PeterW]

That is certainy an impressive root system Brett. Havent got the mag but will definately be on the lookout for it.
Peter

[Asus101]

That is certainy an impressive root system Brett. Havent got the mag but will definately be on the lookout for it.
Peter

Dont listen when I say it... Cant listen to a beginner heavens no...

[anttal63]

same article is in pine masters.

[Jon Chown]

That is certainy an impressive root system Brett. Havent got the mag but will definately be on the lookout for it.

I have the article and can email it to you Peter if you like. Send me your email address by pm

Jon