Carving Accident!

[anttal63]

All good mate. the more people read the more i hope they understand...

[Jamie]

sorry mitch,

I have to disagree even with the tight fitting gloves, I have worked in the metal industry for 10 years, since i was a 15 year old kid, with high powered angle grinders, die grinders, routers, dremel style rotary tools, I have seen work experience kids come in wear gloves because they think this is right (yes the tight riggers gloves) and get onto a bench grinder to have there hand sucked in by the glove and bones have snapped and peirced the skin.


gloves are not a good thing to use with rotary tools, even with dremel type sizes, they still have the power and ability to tear through leather and chew, and the prob with wearing gloves and the smaller type rotary tools is when they do catch and the bit is sharp, just like the terriers and the likes, will chew through leather and once they get through will hack skin and bone even worse as they get caught in the glove and cant get it out.

the trick with ANY rotary tool is to let the tool do the work, it is when these type of tools are used incorrectly and excess pressure is used is when these sort of accidents happen.
the tool is powered to such a high revolution so it does the work, not the pressure, same with a high powered torque drill, if anyone has used them before they will know what i mean, the drill is high powered to do the work, excess pressure on them generally jams the bit into the material they are working and the drill kicks out and your lucky if you just get a sore wrist, i had mine snapped from this sort of accident as a kid. (worst injury in the workplace apart from the ladder, was working with dad as a kid at that time, dont really considered it a work injury more so than child labour )

sorry guys i am pedantic when it comes to stuff like this these days after having gone through work cover and how they treat ya.

( wasnt all directed at you mitch, more so at anyone who will listen )

Jamie.

[Mitchell]

Please don't mis-interpret my original post, it may have come across as more of a blanket statement than I wished.


Gloves should not be used with Rotary power tools



When you say "tight fitting riggers gloves" it makes me think we might be talking slightly different things. I'm talkin' skin tight lycra insert work gloves, such as the ranch gloves from the Iron clad series at Buzzings. Which have no loose edges, material, cuffs which can be caught and dragged in. I have a set of them and find them reasonable.
The set of plain riggers gloves I believe have no place around most power tools.

Just so you know I don't wear gloves with rotaries at all.

[Istari]

The picture is worth a thousand profanitys. Sorry to see that mate. Who would have thought little trees could hurt so much.

[Taffy]

I'm with Jamie on this one. I too was in the metal industry, starting in 1963 as an apprentice Fitter/1st Class machinist. One of the first things taught to me was to have a healthy respect for all machine tools, power tools and hand power tools. I have never been scared of using any of the above but I DO respect them. Abuse a power tool and it WILL bite back. I saw the results of an idiot using a hand grinder (not an angle grinder). These things were a two handed job and were used prior to angle grinders coming on the market. They were long, with the motor in the middle. The trigger was on the back extension, and it was also held with the other hand on the front extension in front of the motor. The grinding wheel was 6 inches diameter and about an inch thick and was on the end of the shaft going from the motor and through the front hand-piece, so the set-up was the same as a Dremel or die-grinder with the wheel spinning on the end, not underneath like an angle grinder.
This idiot had locked the trigger on, and was only holding it by the front hand-piece with his foot on the rear hand-piece. The goose was holding a 1 inch drill in his left hand and trying to sharpen it on the front of the grinding wheel. Whether his foot slipped off or whatever, I'm not sure - but the result was he lost the thumb on his left hand. No chance of having it re-attached - it was ground off at the base. That was only one of quite a few accidents I witnessed because of abusing the equipment.

Me? I still have all my fingers and thumbs intact! Not through luck, but through being taught to have a healthy respect for all machine/power tools - and a strong self preservation desire.

One other point: If a power tool has a guard, USE IT. It isn't there to make the thing look pretty - its there to help avoid accidents. Some will say "but it's inconvenient" - so is losing a finger or a thumb!

No offence meant to anyone, but if you get caught up in the cutter of any machine/power tool then I would suggest your hands are way too close to the cutter. As Jamie said "Let the tool do the work".

Just my 2 cents worth.

[buddaboy]

What worries me most about this is that my new Dremel(and my old GMC) do not use dead man switches. You turn em on and go for it. It would be safer IMHO, if you had to keep pressure on the trigger. Not easier, safer.
Buddaboy

[Taffy]

Couldn't agree more buddaboy - and that should go for angle grinders as well! At least with air operated die-grinders (well, mine anyway), they do shut off the air when you release the trigger.

[Bretts]

Hey Kvan,
Been trying to get through all the opinions before I post. I have done a fair bit in my 5 years but I am no expert on bonsai wood carving. But like Jamie here I have been in the metal industry fior a long time that utilises very similar rotary tools.
Apart from telling some one to hold the tool here (which there has never been a reason to teach anyone that I have ever worked with no matter how new to the game) You can only warn a new operator to be very careful and explain how the tool can kick. Some how I have been very lucky and have not had any major accidents. Although I have had some very nasty reminders. I some times think my left thumb must resent taking all the knocks for all the other digits.
The most rememberable one was when the handle came loose on an angle grinder and it circled down to take a chunk out of my wrist. I laid there under the car amazed how there was such a deep chunk out of my wrist but no blood
I have been using a wood saw in an angle grinder for years on bonsai and figured it was only a matter of time before it ended up in my gut when it kicked back. I now have the arbotech and feel much safer. That is an important aspect of this. Using the right tool for the job is very advisable.

Jamie is very correct in the Glove debate with his experience in the metal industry. It was some time into my work That I was told gloves are not appropriate on bench grinder. They are nasty things and you want to wear gloves but they can make a bad situation very bad by dragging the hand in.
I am less aware of the official stance on gloves for rotary tools such as angle grinders. I have never seen a need to wear them for hand held tools and was surprised when one small company insisted we wear them.
So bench grinder no way and in my opinion I think you are better of glove less when using any hand held rotary tool.
With my Father and uncle a digit or so down and being in the metal industry I thought I was destined to lose a digit or two but as I am glad to display to my Dad I still have all ten
I have never taken a chip out of the Bone Kvan but lets be glad it was not worse. Touch wood

[kvan64]

Thank you Tman and Bretts for sharing your real life experiences. I wish I was told these a bit earlier! Never the less, you are right there Bretts, it could be worse. Also I am sure that this and your experiences would teach me and others a valuable lesson.
I love carving bonsai and I will do it again but I will be a lot more careful next time.

Budda, my diegrinder has a safe button. As soon as I released the thump from it, it stopped spinning. I guess that fail safe feature helped prevent further damage. My dremel doesn't have that though. Just the on/off switch and speed control leveler.

[Jamie]

not so much about saying that they are dangerous, its been enough said, i actually wanted to say to taffy that i know what power tool you are talking bout with the old grinders, they are like a barrel grinder that we used when i was working with stainless steel, it would hold a scotchbrite wheel around 6-8 inch diameter and 2 inch thick, i know how those buggers kicked and seen the old hard stone grinding wheels that they came with, i cant beleive some one was game enough to lock the trigger on, hold it down with a foot and one hand and try and sharpen a drill bit all at the same time jeez they always made me edgy at the best of times and if i wasnt hanging onto it like a bulls horns i wouldnt turn the thing one!

like i said before and a few have stated, have respect for the power tool and let it do the work, not your muscles!

oh by the way if anyone was wondering, i still got all my fingers, toes and thumbs! lost a few fingernails in my time though!


edit- mitch as good as those kevlars look i still wouldnt use em, a bit of bark is one thing (no pun intended ) when they get in underneath is another.