Palm tree

[Levuccio]

Hi guys,

Next to my house there are some palm trees growing and I collected a small palm tree from the ground (about 20cm tall). I was surprised to see that the roots look very hollow and are
quite thick, they almost look like they are dead, but the it seems to have healthy leaves. I just put it in a small pot, watered it thoroughly and I would like to make a bonsai out of it.
Any tips? Do I need to do anything else with the tree or you think it will just continue growing like that?

And I havent seen many forums about palm bonsai, can it be done?

Cheers

Alex

[Jamie]

hi alex

welcome to the forum firstly!

not trying to sound blunt or rude, i have to keep it short i gotta get off in a minute, but palm trees wont work as bonsai, they will do fine in a pot but dont have the characterstics of trees to work.

Im sure joel or someone will go further in depth, i would suggest though, get yaself a fig!

jamie

[Levuccio]

Thanks Jamie

I already have several different plants, Figs, Elms, Lilly pillys etc but I wanted to try a palm tree now.
Has anyone done it?

If its not suitable for a bonsai then I might just put it in a larger pot and grow a big palm tree

[Bretts]

OK, so I shall try again. Hopefully Telstra wont go down again, causing me to loose this effort.
First off, we accept Bonsai as a tree planted in a pot or tray. Some will say it is a styled tree planted in a pot and I will get to that bit later.

Now, what follows is something my Bonsai friends in Bali have taught me. I have photos of some of these Palms somewhere, but as I have no idea in which shed or other place they may be, sorry but, right now I can't post them up for you. My Bali mates tell me they have tried a number of Palms, but the only ones they have managed to control properly are the Coconut Palms. In Bali there are 2 types of coconuts growing. One is the common one we all know, growing to heights around 7 or 8 metres high over there, same as the ones growing at Bagara here in Qld and I think the ones up in FNQ, but there is also another type up which only grows to around 3 metres. The frond on these grows to about 1.5 / 2 metres long as opposed to the monsters which grow on the other sort. The other difference is in the fruit. Whereaas the big Mumma has the large round fruit with the smallish round nut inside, the dwarf one has a fruit which is about the size of a kids football and the nut roughly the same football shape, not round. The fruit from the dwarf one is also more yellow. I have not seen the dwarf Malay Coconut here in Queensland, but then haven't looked either. I know they are available in Darwin, so if ever up there maybe worth a look for.

Anyhow - training. This starts from the very germination of the Palm. Once the palm has shot and the tap root has cleared the husk of the nut the nut has to be removed. Dangerous to do and I have lost a few at this stage, but it gets easier from here on in. Once the nut has been removed from the shot plant break the tip off the tap root and plant the palm into a large pot and allow the first frond to grow naturally, allowing it to open normally. This will help set the trunk growing properly. By the way I have trained Coconuts from trunks which shot and grew into the ground, normally, but the root sytem is very hard to manage with these types of palm. So, after the first frond opens your work begins. Allow each subsequent frond to grow to around 2 to 3 inches (50 to 75mm for Imperially challenged ) and then taking a sharp knife slit the membrane up the inside of the new emerging frond. I used a scalpel and worked very carefully as you want to only slice the membrane and not the frond itself. This has the same effect as twisting the sheath from a Ficus leaf, in that the frond is forced to open as an immature frond, not growing to its full length before opening. The cut has to be made very carefully as any damage to the actual frond will stay with the plant until that frond drops from the plant, same as breaking a leaf on the before mentioned Fig. The open frond will be slightly longer than it was when cut open due to the spreading habit of the fronds as they open out, so leaving the frond spike until it is 4 inches long would result in a 4 1/2 to 5 inch frond and so on, meaning that as the palm grows in height they could, if desired, be left to grow longer if a bigger appearing tree was desired.

Now to form the trunk, allow 5 or 6 fronds to grow from the top of the palm and then taking your scalpel again, remove the lowest frond from the trunk. Continue to remove the lowest frond after 2 or 3 new fronds have grown. This allows the trunk to start forming and looking like a true trunk earlier than if allowed to progress naturally. Never allow less than the 5 or 6 fronds to remain on the palm or the trunk becomes to narrow and weak. You will also find from time to time a frond will get nicked while the membrane is being cut, so a good number of fronds on the palm will help cover the fault. As Taffy said as well, if while cutting the membrane you happen to cut off the terminal frond and you also damage the next shoot, which will be starting inside the frond, just throw the palm away as it will die and there would be very little chance of saving it. Having said that, I have seen palms have the centre core frond removed and the palm survived because the next new shoot hadn't been damaged. Problem with a Bonsai Palm is that there is such a small crown to the plant the next shoot is always to close to the crown.

Once the trunk starts to develop you can decide if you want a straight trunk or a trunk with curves. Obviously for a straight trunk just leave the palm to grow naturally, but if you want to induce a few (or one) curve allow the palm to grow a few inches in height and then push it over a bit in the pot. Over time the trunk will curve up again so the crown is growing vertical again. The trunk can be given any number of curves by repeating the above over again.

Although I have seen Coconut palms planted in soil so heavy the water just sat on top of the pot, I found they seem to like a well drained potting mix. They seemed to like almost all types of fertiliser, although they do enjoy the occasional sprinkle of salt over the soil surface. Reporting is a yearly venture and root pruning is done as with any other Bonsai, taking out the thicker roots and developing a finer fibrous root system, which believe it or not happens - and fairly quickly.

Are Coconut Palms Bonsai or a potted oddity? You make your own mind up, but I have seen coastal scenes made up of Coconut Palms, trees/plant material, rocks and sand that looked every bit as good as any tray landscape using conventional trees. I also reckon if the Balinese can stick Coconut palm 'Bonsai' in their display for ASPAC then they should be considered Bonsai, but that is my opinion and as I always say, "I respect your right to disagree with me".

viewtopic.php?f=133&t=5859&p=68095

[Pup]

Mrs Pup was given many years ago a dwarf Rhapis palm.These palms only grow to a metre in height. They multply by rhizomes. There are many types and one of the few plants that have natural varigated leaf forms.

When she needed help she was put on to a Lynn McKamey of Texas who was very helpful to her and sent her a couple of books.
In the one book.

Secret of the Orient dwarf rhapis
ISBN 0-9612130-0-0

There is a chapter which shows how you can use the dwarf as a group planting as Bonsai.
The fact that they are not used in large numbers like other plants, dose not mean they are not. In fact the late John.Y. Naka in his book techniques 1 has a soil mix specific for palms. Which Mrs Pup uses and it is very good for palms.

Cheers Pup

[Levuccio]

Thanks for all that info guys, I think I will give it a go, and lets see if a small pot can keep the palm to stay small.
I might post some pictures of the palm later on today.

[Levuccio]

Here is the picture of the palm that I collected

[Joel]

That is not a palm. It looks like a Philladendron. And just like a palm, i dont believe it can make a believable bonsai. Doesnt mean you cant play with it, but i would put it in the same category as bamboo, nandina and cycads. If you continue with it let us know how it goes!

Good luck!
Joel

[Levuccio]

You might be right Joel,

I think I will go ahead with it and will post updates so you guys can see how the tree is going

Thanks everyone

[Istari]

The only thing you might want to watch with it is you cant stunt its growth by taking out the new shoots, I think Joel and I were discussing this earlier last week, the plant may survive for a while but as the leaves fall (which happens as it ages) its height is capped, theres no regrowth and the plant dies.

So as long as willing to let go of height control I think it would be an interesting project to develope

Would love to see how this one progresses.

Itsy.

[Joel]

This plant probably can re-shoot as it isnt a palm. But it may not. But if it does, it will only shoot out in one spot and not where you want it.

Joel