need advice on trident maple progression

[cutejai]

31/05/2009



due to the bad nebari, I've decided to grow on to develop nebari as well as trunk. aluminum wire was used as a

tourniquet to create the new root system and the tree was planted into a slightly bigger pot.

15/01/2011
today I've decided to check the new root, since the tree was planted in a pot instead of ground, so I'm concerned the root might grow vertically.

I'm surprised the new root actually spread out quite nicely. so far I'm very happy with the result, but need some advice on the future of this tree.

1. I've now cut away almost 75% of the root and planted into a slightly bigger pot. I've got another trident planted at the same time with exact technique, so should I root prune that one as well? or leave it undisturbed to expedite the grow? the downside is I won't know what the new root looks like.
2. I would like the trunk to be around 3 inches(the trunk is now 2 inches), so should I prune the top now to start creating taper? or let it grow undisturbed till 3 inches? because I've read somewhere that once you trunk chop it, the trunk will hardly put on size anymore.

[kcpoole]

Very nice effort and great result.
You are a brave boy to be root pruning Maples at this time of year tho. With any deciduous tree, this is a winter job.

I would pot up into you mix of choice and put in a sheltered spot from both wind and sun and keep well watered

Seasol every couple of days until you see positive signs of growth and then introduce fertilizer

Ken

[kcpoole]

When you chop a trunk, the tree will slow down certainly, but after a while ( this time of year you will get little more growth till next spring.
Same applies when you root prune a tree too. Al;l the energy goes into repairing the chops instead of rampant growth

To develop taper, you must trunk chop every few years and then let the new shoot go made for another few years. Repeat as necessary and do not neglect to put bends into the new growth to develop movement while at it.

with this tree, I would remove the sacrifice branches, and trunk chop. then let new sacrifices and leader grow madly. By replacing the sacrifice brancches every year or 2, the scars will not be as big and take as long to heal

Ken

[cutejai]

Thanks ken, hopefully the tree will pull through and still have enough time to store energy for winter dormancy. and will definitely keep your advice in mind.

I'm thinking the next move would be to select a new leader now to avoid reverse taper at the top. but still not sure where to make the cut, whether selecting the small sacrificed branch or one of the big branch at the top.

more advice from other members would be greatly appreciated.

craigw60. if you are reading, I'm all ears.

Regards

[kcpoole]

see the 2 virts of where might chop them

1 smaller with more movement, and the other is a more upright tree but has nice taper when would make a more "feminine " tree

the choice you take would depend on your personal tastes and also the tree in the Bark may decide differently

Ken

[LLK]

On 31/05/09 I would have been pleased to get a trident like that.
On 15/01/11 I would have said "No thank you" if it had been offered to me.
By letting the branches grow in such an uncontrolled way you have spoiled the tree. Ken's virtuals don't show the terrible scars you'll get all around the trunk when you cut away those branches. They will take a long time to heal.
The only possibility I see is to grow this tree as a clump bonsai, retaining those thick new growths.
Good luck,

Lisa

[Bretts]

I think you have done an excellent Job cutejai.
The obvious choice for me now is to chop and use this leader

CRW_5615.jpeg

But then tilting the tree to angle the trunk and bring the leader upright will spoil the great root base you created.
So scanning the pics I thought this leader will allow the tree to be tilted and utilise all those great roots.

CRW_5613.jpeg

I would leave any branches under the new leader to now use as sacrifice branches.

[cutejai]

Ken: thank you for your virts, wow, so many options, I should really spend more time assessing the tree from all possible angle. still trying to learn where people normally perform the first trunk chop, seems like most of the trunk chop is perform after the first branch, so the scar could be hidden behind the thick foliage. there is no rush for this tree atm, I'm happy to spend another 4-5 years on it before start branch selection.

Lisa: I'm glad to hear different opinion and advice, I guess if others are dare enough to trunk chop a much larger trunk without worrying about scar. I think mine shouldn't be that bad, and I thought letting branches grow uncontrolled is the only way to expedite the grow of the trunk. but thanks for your input.

Brett: exactly what I have in mind atm, but could you advise on how to make the chop this low without leaving too big a scar? because I've done some trunk chop on other trident and it seems that the scar will not disappear, it tends to leave an ugly collar somehow which makes me wonder if this ring will completely seal itself and go away? Or should it chop it in a way leaving the open wound behind, so the cola won't be noticeable when viewing from the front, but then this would leave imperfection which leave me wonder how other perfect bonsai are created.

Regards

[Bretts]

There is no real magic to it. Just directing lots of growth as best you can to facilitate the scar being covered.
Peter Adams has an excellent book outlining many growing techniques for stock just like this called
Bonsai with Japanese Maples.

In the mean time Al over at Bonsai nut has an excellent thread working with tridents and trunk chopping.
http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3149
You don't have to go as Sumo as Al has but it is a good example.

Since you have bare rooted the tree at this time of year I am not sure when to recommend the chop. One side says now it can't hurt the tree any more than you have as long as you give first class after care but I have not done this in the growing season before?

Gary Wood is growing some great maple stock. He discusses it here
http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread. ... ht=trident
And more recently on his blog
http://thingsofwood-gary.blogspot.com/

[garywood]

@ Bretts, just wanted to say thanks for the plug.
Wood
http://thingsofwood-gary.blogspot.com/

[shibui]

I'd leave the other tree alone at this stage. you will discover that tridents have a strong tendency to send out horizontal roots just under the surface as your first tree has done.
Tridents heal quite quickly with the correct care. Most important is to seal the cut soon after. I have done tests and the difference in healing is astonishing. second is to allow lots of growth above the cut. This thickens the base of the new leader and helps heal the scar.
Without seeing the tree in the flesh I would probably use one of the thicker trunks as the new leader - pick the best line where the cut is behind (may need to be some compromise about the absolute best movement) - remove the others completely and shorten the main leader quite a lot. If you can't find any good trunk lines here just cut lower and wait for shoots then choose a new leader.
I think it is too late to change the planting angle of the trunk - you need surface roots for good nebari and these will probably be too stiff to move now. This is why it is important to plant the trunk at an angle when potting up seedlings, or layering trunks. Its too late afterwards. Pup has been making this point strongly about layering and from my own experience I strongly agree.

[cutejai]

Brett: wow, thank you so much for the links, they are truely inspirational. I think my plan of attack for now is to leave it undisturbed till next spring. then start to air layer the top off and hopefully I could turn it into a multi-trunk/broom style. with the existing base I will chop it real hard to make a sumo as per tecnnique described in your link. =)

GarryWood: I've got afew cutting lying around, now I know what to do with them. Thanks.

Shibui: Thanks for the advice. will leave the other alone, or may be air layer it now and do a trunk chop in late winter to introduce movement(hopefully that's the right time). meanwhile I might check the root from the top to confirm if it's going radial.

question regarding root work on deciduous. at first I thought now is the best time to perform major root work since all energy have been shifted to the top, so if I do it now, it should have enough time to recover before winter, if this is done in winter, it might take away too much stored energy. but after some reading, it seems that the best time is when the buds swell, which is between late winter/early spring, because all energy would've been shifted to the dormant buds, if the root is pruned now, the top should survive with the stored energy leaving the root to recover itself. please correct me if this isn't the case, so I won't make the same mistake again.

question regarding airlayer - I'm planning to air layer it in 45 degree angle, so when time to plant it, I don't need to tilt the root. so does this work?

[shibui]

I always do major rootwork from mid winter to bud swell. You are one of few to try in the growing season so it is an interesting experiment for many of us. Keep us informed of progress. Most would believe that root pruning now deprives tree of access to water while leaves are trying to transpire moisture and produce food for tree. Leaves might wilt and maybe fall off but hopefully will reshoot from buds. Maybe it will be better than winter. You will find out and let us know.
Layering at an angle is desirable unless aiming for formal upright styles (including broom) so please make the cut on an angle for informal upright. Maybe 45 deg is a little extreme though I'd try 20 - 30 degrees.

[Bretts]

Hey Shibui
Bare rooting deciduous during the Summer dormant period is documented as a possible time but always seemed too scary to me

[cutejai]

Hi All,

just a quick update on the progress of this Trident. it has been 3.5 year now since it was left in the ground to grow. here is what it looks like today, doesn't looks like I've improved it much except adding size, and i'm not that impressed with the nerbari either, so hoping afew growing season could mask some of those big scars then I might turn it into a sumo or something.

dug up


root trim and trunk chopped


back to the ground 15/08/2014


Regards
George