Another project completed..Juniperis Chinensis.

[Pup]

Love it Bodhi! Although technically Pup is correct on the little bloke under there, I think the boundary between Japanese/Chinese and Western "bonsai" (used as a kind of all-encompassing word) is blurred enough outside of China and Japan to be able to justify either. I may be shot down on this one, but why do we insist on boxing ourselves into categories. Same goes for style rules. They are there as a result of sensible horticulture and basic principles of art, but must we stick to them slavishly?

Again, lovely little composition! I'm going to officially start a new category of trees in pots. Its called Bonjing , and it's for those of us who don't know or care whether what we are doing is Japanese, Chinese or a mix of both, but love it all the same!

Andrew

The reason behind the comment was this is a Bonsai site the subject of what is Penjing and what is Bonsai comes into the equation when. One uses the word Bonsai for a penjing and vice versa. If you had a Japanese master looking over your collection, he would walk past a Penjing and also a Saikei. As they are not Bonsai, this has happened to me.
So if you do not know the difference you do now, Bonsai, Is a tree without artificial adornments, except as an accent to it on it own stand.
Penjing will allow you to put artificial ornaments and the like, in or around the setting.
The western world introduced Rules, Guidlines for producing good Penjing or Bonsai are handed down, from the preceeding generations.

[Andrew Legg]

Hey Pup,

The way I understand it, it goes a lot deeper than adorned or not adorned, and the differences extend into styles, growing techniques and the spiritual or esoteric world as well. I am by no means an expert, and I understand that trees can certainly be partitioned into classes, but I don't think it is that important. Is it? That's just me though, as personally I don't worry about that kind of thing. I also take the view that when penjing moved from China to Japan many moons back, the Japanese took it by the scruff of the neck and made it into their own. They used what the Chinese had given them, and threw out what they did not like and brought in a whole bunch of new things that they did. They called it Bonsai. Now, I guess the question is, why can't we/I do the same?

I live in Cape Town, South Africa, and we grow a lot of Acacia trees here in the Piernief Style. This is a flat topped umbrella style used in mimicking trees growing in the bushveld up north. At a recent bonsai kai meeting someone suggested including a model giraffe eating from the leaves of the tree. Now I would say to that, as in some way it is an African interpretation of penjing. The "traditionalists" were however horrified at the thought. I suppose I can understand why, and I am not saying that one has too, but is there something wrong if one takes bonsai and makes it one's own? Maybe then it is no longer bonsai in the pure sense of the word/practice. I'd argue that the word "bonsai" has become diluted enough to be used out of its original context, but just in case it hasn't, I'm going with Bonjing.

Come on Pup, on the light hearted side, you gotta admit that Bonjing has a nice ring to it

Have fun,

Andrew

[parabola]

Love it!

[dragon]

howdy guys
i am in full agreeance with pup bosai =bonsai, penjing = penjing and saikei = saikei
they are all given this name because they got a single meaning for each as for us
people who are just learning to do bonsai we dont need to be confused about what
is what
cheers dean

[Pup]

When I was, 7 I was just hiding from Hitlers Bombs and learned a Bomb, is a bomb whether it was an explosive device or and Incendiary. I did however learn that they both destroyed things.

When I was twenty five I was married with Children and moved to Australia to get away from the racism that was plaguing our Country. Wanting a better life for my sons,
I passed on my knowledge to them, so that they could learn that they have choices. Gladly they made the right ones regardless of.

Well lets leave it there eh!

Pup

[Andrew Legg]

Hey Pup,

I agree fully with choices. We all have the right to practise this wonderful hobby in the way that works for us. I have my opinion and I respect yours and those of all other posters no matter how senior or junior they may be. Diversity is the joy of life isn't it. Wouldn't life be dull were we all the same.

For me, growing these little trees in pots is all about the journey. Mixing soil with my 4 year old daughter, trying to keep my 18 month old son out of the pots, cutting, bending, pruning and hopefully ending up with something that is visually appealing to me. I learn about the rules, and why they are there. I try to understand the subtle differences between the different styles and techniques, but most of all, I try to allow my own expression to come to the fore in what I do. In this regard, I probably break some of the rules, and possibly take liberties in calling some of my trees bonsai as opposed to penjing or just calling them anything at all! Maybe this is where my Bonjing idea comes from. It's because there are people out there who quite justifiably and correctly would tell me that my trees are not bonsai or penjing, that I then give them a new name, Bonjing. Its a fun play on words, just as my trees are a fun play on bonsai and penjing. Nothing to take too seriously.

I don't understand the relevance of Hitler and bombs in this thread? Maybe I'm missing something!

[Pup]

Experience leading the young mind, one bomb was killer in a different way, than the other. Both were killers. I was taught by the experience, of my elders. As they do in China and Japan.

My last word as this is going nowhere.

[alpineart]

Hi Bodhi , very nice and very pleasing to the eye . It shows a sense of age and tranquility .Cheers Alpine

[Damian Bee]

Nice work Bodhi, I like the little guy sitting underneath.

[bodhidharma]

Well, Holy Dooly, the composition has created a discussion and that makes me very happy. I know i have succeeded when a project creates stimulated views of opinion. As a Bonsai person, when i work on trees, there is always a shadow of doubt. Thanks all for the feedback, it is feed back which makes us do better. To answer a couple of things, the slab is slate. We have an old abandoned Quarry in our street and it is slab hunting heaven. Yes, the retainer is filled with soil and the whole slab acts like a Bonsai pot. The retainer was completely covered with clay for the moss to adhere to. Thanks to Pup and Andrew for their discussion and input. I did not know that by adding the wise old guy (me, in later years) changed the composition from Bonsai to Penjing, something learn t again

[Ash]

"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" Shakespeare

"I dont know anything about art but I know what I like" Burgess

"Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder"

I think that the presence of nejimi (a Japanese word for a small object positioned for fine tuning) where Bodhi's figurine is placed does add to this composition. It interrupts the negative space between the undersurface of the main branch and the top surface of the mound and thereby it takes the emphasis off their similarity in line. It would work just as well if a small piece of the same rock as the slab, a tuft of grass or any another plant was used under the main branch in that position, so long as the nejimi was not too big.

When it comes to exhibition time Bodhi I would very much like to see a photograph of this tree on a stand against a plain backdrop added to the gallery.

regards
Ash

[bodhidharma]

I think that the presence of nejimi (a Japanese word for a small object positioned for fine tuning) where Bodhi's figurine is placed does add to this composition. It interrupts the negative space between the undersurface of the main branch and the top surface of the mound and thereby it takes the emphasis off their similarity in line. It would work just as well if a small piece of the same rock as the slab, a tuft of grass or any another plant was used under the main branch in that position, so long as the nejimi was not too big.

[/quote]


Again i have learnt something new. Nejimi..I love the rock idea Ash and a tuft of grass or maybe even a tiny flowering something or other I love the ideas coming forth. A project Bonsai is never finished.

[lennard]

Again i have learnt something new.

I love these little settings!

I have also learned something: I don't like my Junipers because they are over-stylized! If I give mine some body in the pads they will look much better.

Thanks for the insight.

Lennard

[bodhidharma]

It is time to thin this guy out and redo the moss and clay holding it all together. It was also time for a drastic prune, wire and a little bit of restyle. I thought i would also share how to grow moss on your arrangements when they are sitting on a slab. You will notice some white stuff (yoghurt) spread onto the muck. I do this to produce moss as it is a rarity here at this time of year and it also bonds, or grows, to the existing moss and holds it all together. I had to lose a couple of branches and shorten the length a bit. For beginners reading this, you have to rework your trees every three or so years so it can stay in a presentable condition.

[MoGanic]

Very well put together. Great composition and I look forward to seeing the refinement process.

Thanks for taking the time to document the whole moss dilemma as I'm sure many people still struggle to grow moss, including me.