Euc Meliodora (Yellow Box) Stump

[Damian Bee]

No, thank you Fly I had always wanted to try a Eucy but couldn't get them past 2 years, mainly due to neglect fed by lack of knowledge There is always another tubestock worth picking up though.

[Jan]

Very interesting, please keep us posted on how the grafting goes.

I have a couple of collected Euc Mels that have shot (and some that didn't!) and am following this thread with interest.

Thanks,

Jan

[FlyBri]

Gday folks!

Despite our wet Spring/Summer/Autumn, growth on this one had virtually come to a standstill since the last update. Jarrod and I discussed this issue recently, and we speculated that the Summer may not have been warm enough for the Oz native plants to grow properly, yet I observed massive growth on ground-grown Eucalypts in my area. So, I turned my attention to the roots of this one to see what was going on...

I am beginning to suspect that I have made some serious errors in terms of my potting mixes of late: I had already concluded that the addition of sphagnum was a mistake, as the small particles prevented water and air from penetrating the soil. It appeared that there were still some remnant bits of sphagnum in the soil of this tree, but the problem was compounded by the abundance of small particles (under about 2mm) of organic matter, sand, attapulgite and vermiculite. These had all compressed over time to create a big block of semi-permeable dirt, which was clearly not ideal for growing Bonsai in. (Of course, a percentage of the small particles had appeared by way of natural decomposition, but most were there because of laziness and me not paying heed to what I had learned many years ago... )

As has been discussed on AB.c numerous times before, the general consensus is that a healthy root system requires not only water, but also air in order to thrive. Small particles in a Bonsai soil can slow water uptake, and therefore limit air penetration. If this continues for too long, the entire structure of the soil can be altered to such a point as to be useless.

When I first got into Bonsai via Internet Forums, the importance of sifting one's soil mix was paramount. Mrs Fly gave me a soil sieve with various screens from 2-3mm up to 8-10mm, and I used it religiously when sifting (at the time) general purpose potting mix and gravel. Then at some point, I took heed of a counter-claim that it was not at all important to sift Bonsai soil so long as one's trees were properly watered. That's when I stopped being so vigilant about sifting my mixes, believing that I knew how to water my trees "properly". (However, the "proper" way to water one's Bonsai is almost entirely dependent on the soil mix, so it is a two-way street.) Looking back now, I see that many of my trees - including this one - were more vigorous back then.

So, I decided to sift the soil from this one in order to open up the mix and get the roots back into order. I removed all particles under 2-3mm, which was quite a few handfuls. Interestingly, the effect on the overall potted volume was almost negligible (and I'm excited about how much air/water space I've freed up).

Sorry about the essay, but I thought it important to document this, as much for my own reference as anything. Anyway, here are the pics:

E_meliodora_0411_01.jpg

E_meliodora_0411_02.jpg

E_meliodora_0411_03.jpg

E_meliodora_0411_04.jpg

E_meliodora_0411_05.jpg

E_meliodora_0411_06.jpg

Updates to follow.

Thanks.

Fly.

[Roger]

I like how this one is progressing. Well done again.

[FlyBri]

I like how this one is progressing.

Gday Roger, and thanks!

You might be a little disappointed with the latest installment, as I have worked out that I repotted far too late last year (late-April, if memory serves) and the tree has not responded well. While it was growing, it was not nearly as vigorous as it should have been at this time of year, so I decided to take my usual course of action: check out what the roots are up to.

As it turned out, I could probably have left the tree in its pot and just trimmed the branches, but a thorough sift of the tree's mix removed a generous double-handful of fines (<2-3mm). So repotting should help get the vigour up.

Anyway, here are the pics:

E_meliodora_0112_01.jpg

E_meliodora_0112_02.jpg

E_meliodora_0112_03.jpg

E_meliodora_0112_04.jpg

E_meliodora_0112_05.jpg

E_meliodora_0112_06.jpg

E_meliodora_0112_07.jpg

Thanks!

Fly.

[Roger]

Hi Fly
a couple of queries, if I may:
1. In your post of 27 April 11, your fourth photo shows what look like six match sticks glued onto the base of the trunk. What is happening? I might have missed your comments, though I read through the lot.
2. I'd like to follow up on your comment about long internodes and no budding along them, at least not in the short term. I agree with what you said, but I'm wondering how long the 'short term is'? If you prune back a stem with leaves with long internodes, you only get buds at leaf axils and nothing between. If you cut a thick branch or trunk, you can get masses of buds up and down the stem, clearly not only in places where leaf axils used to be. I seem to recall that the production of 'epicormic buds', those that produce the masses of buds when the stem is severely damaged/cut, are produced sometime after the stem is initially produced. So the question is still, how long is this time and can one tell when it is reached? I've sort of felt that if you leave a euc stem to thicken until it is at least as thick as a pencil, then when you prune it back, there is a good chance that epicormic buds will have been produced and thus budding will not be restricted to the old leaf axil areas. What is your experience?

Roger

[FlyBri]

Gday again, Mr Roger!

1. In your post of 27 April 11, your fourth photo shows what look like six match sticks glued onto the base of the trunk. What is happening? I might have missed your comments, though I read through the lot.

The 'matchsticks' are pegs I fashioned from bamboo skewers. I drilled small holes into the fattest point of the lignotuberous material, dipped the bamboo pegs into a paste made from root hormone powder and PVA, and then tapped the pegs into the holes. Upon repotting, all the pegs were placed beneath the soil level. The theory here is that the pegs will prevent the holes from simply healing over, and encourage roots to form at those points. (The first time I had heard of this technique was when Gerard used this method with toothpicks to get roots on one of his Plum trees. Unfortunately, the Search function is out of commission at the moment.)

I have tried the skewers on a few trees now, but have yet to report any real success.

2. I'd like to follow up on your comment about long internodes and no budding along them, at least not in the short term. I agree with what you said, but I'm wondering how long the 'short term is'? If you prune back a stem with leaves with long internodes, you only get buds at leaf axils and nothing between. If you cut a thick branch or trunk, you can get masses of buds up and down the stem, clearly not only in places where leaf axils used to be. I seem to recall that the production of 'epicormic buds', those that produce the masses of buds when the stem is severely damaged/cut, are produced sometime after the stem is initially produced. So the question is still, how long is this time and can one tell when it is reached? I've sort of felt that if you leave a euc stem to thicken until it is at least as thick as a pencil, then when you prune it back, there is a good chance that epicormic buds will have been produced and thus budding will not be restricted to the old leaf axil areas. What is your experience?

Very good points, and a tricky question...

Like you, I believe that there must be some point in the development of Euc branches after which the original nodes are no longer the only place where buds may be forced to appear. When this is, I cannot say. I suspect that the epicormic buds will only become present after the bark has thickened/matured. (I have grown branches to the thickness of a pencil in a single season, but they still displayed immature "twig bark", so I am doubtful that branch thickness is the only factor at play here.)

With this particular Euc, I have cut back two or three branches which are thinner than a pencil but are displaying mature bark. I will watch these closely as the tree finds its feet again.



As an aside, the branch that I am attempting to graft into place is displaying mature bark (IE: it has peeled back to white, smooth bark) after the graft site, yet the bark before the graft site remains immature. I guess this means that the graft is beginning to set.

Thanks!

FlyBri.

[Roger]

Hi FB
Thanks for those notes. You're right about it not being just about 'thickness'; it's really about the maturity of the cambium with respect to starting to produce cells that can turn into epicormic buds. How to detect that transition time is the challenge - one cant' look and see those cells. Thickness, maturity of the surface bark characters... Keep watching and recording

I like what seems to be your thread graft. Well done. I'd guess that the stem above the graft had firmly attached to the larger branch and the stem below the graft is becoming superflous, thus new stem diameter/bark growth on the outer (distal) part and none on the lower (proximal) part. I hadn't thought of thread grafting eucs, but it looks like it works... I've learned something new today already!

R

[FlyBri]

I hadn't thought of thread grafting eucs, but it looks like it works... I've learned something new today already!

Gday again Roger!

Not wanting to be pedantic, but I don't know if this qualifies as a thread graft:



At the time I started the graft, I was concerned about stripping the donor branch of leaves, so I decided to "insert" the branch into a horizontal cut in the recipient branch. I had great success with this approach on my first River Red Gum, as shown below:




Thanks again!

Fly.

[Roger]

Many thanks. Now I understand. Also know what the screws, mentioned much earlier in the thread, are about! I'd call it an 'approach graft', which is certainly is. If next time you slant the cut the branchlet is put in, the line of the join won't look so unusual as a 'horizontal' one does a bit. Great way to get a branch on a euc where you want one.

Roger