Large Acer palmatum cuttings?

[MattA]

Hi all,

How large a cutting can be taken from Acer palmatum ? ? ?

I have a large one I collected last winter & it has really powered over the growing season. It was in a 50cm nursery pot until early autumn then slipped into the ground undisturbed. I had planned to layer the upper trunk over the coming year but with the rot thru the centre of both trunks I would really like to get it sorted out now instead of let it getting any worse.

The section to be removed is approx 60cm long & 10cm dia with nice mature bark. It has a number of 20-40cm long 3-5cm thick branches extending from one side and it could make a nice raft or be split into several smaller pieces. Would these strike as hardwood cuttings, the tree is finally losing the last of its leaves & bud swell is not long, a couple of trees in protected spots have already started growing.

Thanks in advance
Matt

[alpineart]

Hi MattA , never had any luck with Palmatum cutting , however have had good success with up to 90mm air layers . Cheers Alpine

[GavinG]

Also had no luck with palmatum cuttings, layering much more likely.

Gavin

[deepeetee]

Hi Matt,

I planted a small Palmatum (1m tall) in the front yard that was to be grown in the ground, however, it did not like the sea breeze at all. So i chopped the little fella up into approx half a dozen cuttings (none taller than 150mm and 20mm wide). 2 of the cuttings produced foliage rather quickly, whilst another generated some new buds. The other 3 cuttings have not done a great deal at all. I did this around the end of March.

I dunked the cuttings in the rooting hormone gel.
My mix is 1/3 potting mix, 1/3 zeolite, 1/3 Ash

From what the others have said i may have just had a bit of pot luck. But ill be trying something similar again with another Palmatum when it gets a little warmer, i might even try an air layer too.

Cheers Dave

[shibui]

I also find A. palmatum quite difficult from cuttings so I'd be surprised if larger ones would grow any better. Rot in trunks may not be the end of the tree. I have several that have areas rotted away and still growing strong after a number of years. I'd still try layering it.

Dave, Have you checked your cuttings for roots? Many cuttings, esp larger ones will often put out new shoots and grow quite well but have not put out any roots - they seem to use the energy stored in the stem to grow then when that is used they die. Hoping yours are actually growing but preparing you for a more likely outcome.

[deepeetee]

Hi Shibui,

This is why i love this forum. That's great information. Thank you.
No i havent checked them for roots. One of the two cuttings which had shot some foliage has started to wilt, I just figured it was the time of year.
If i removed the cutting from the mix, wouldn't i damage the fine roots (if there are any)?

[shibui]

Very new roots are easily damaged (if they have them) so I would leave them for now, cross fingers and hope like hell! The wilting one sounds typical - when the energy is used up the new growth just dies off. The bigger the cutting is the longer it will last. i have had some that looked good for more than a year before dying off - no roots at all.

If you are determined to check, tip the pot out very carefully and gently brush the cutting mix away to see what has happened.

[deepeetee]

ill check this afternoon on one of the cuttings that hasnt done much.
Although that probably isnt a very good indicator.
Stuff it, ill rip out the wilting one and give it a check.
What's the worst that can happen? It dies!!! Its all about the learning process

[anttal63]

same here Matt i find it impossible to strike little JM let alone large. Layer, they layer like there's no 2moro. Mate of mine here sets layers on JM's in spring and cuts them off end of Dec. Then sets more and cuts off end of winter. 2 in a season !!! Like a champion !!!

[Craig]

Hi Guys, i haven't tried any maple cuttings but i found an interesting discussion about them , read thru as theres some interesting posts,

http://www.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/forum ... php?t=3147

[MattA]

Craig,

Thanks for the link, it was certainly a lively discussion but some interesting thoughts in it. I posted on IBC & one mentioned success with willow water so its something to add to the mix as well..http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t7025 ... ings#73003

Shibui,

The rot is fairly extensive & with the extra water here compared to the carpark where i got it is certainly taking its toll. I have noticed a couple of spots of deadwood lower down that are producing spore heads, in my experience a good indicator the rot extends thru the entire core or parts of it.

Antonio,

What method does he use? This is thick wood & I would be concerned it not forming enough roots to support it in such a short period. 6mths delay in dealing with the rot wont be too bad for this baby.

I am determined to try a few methods of cutting on this one so I can get the worst areas dealt with and also now to test a few ideas

Matt

[deepeetee]

HI Shibui and Matt

I have just checked the two cuttings that werent doing so well.
The first cutting had 1 fine root.
The second cutting had about 8-10 fine roots. Clearly not enough to support the little fella

I havent touched the other two, not really sure what this tells me.

Does this just add more weight that the Acer Palmatums dont take as cuttings?

[Mojo Moyogi]

Getting roots on A.palmatum is one thing, and it can be done with the right growing environment. I'm talking bottom heat and automatic misting/fogging in a polytunnel. Keeping the cuttings alive for more than a season and getting them to grow with any vigour beyond that is the biggest challenge. Oversize cuttings? My advice would be to not bother. Even if you do get them to put out roots (possible), survive (maybe) and grow well (unlikely), you are probably going to be left with taperless logs. AirLayering this species is quite simple as many have suggested above and you can pre train the layered section on the parent tree beforehand.

Cheers,
Mojo

[deepeetee]

Thanks Mojo,

Lesson learnt

Dave

[Chris Sirre]

Hi all,

How large a cutting can be taken from Acer palmatum ? ? ?

I have a large one I collected last winter & it has really powered over the growing season. It was in a 50cm nursery pot until early autumn then slipped into the ground undisturbed. I had planned to layer the upper trunk over the coming year but with the rot thru the centre of both trunks I would really like to get it sorted out now instead of let it getting any worse.

The section to be removed is approx 60cm long & 10cm dia with nice mature bark. It has a number of 20-40cm long 3-5cm thick branches extending from one side and it could make a nice raft or be split into several smaller pieces. Would these strike as hardwood cuttings, the tree is finally losing the last of its leaves & bud swell is not long, a couple of trees in protected spots have already started growing.

Thanks in advance
Matt

Hi Matt,

Maple cuttings can be done from softwood and/or Semi Hardwood. If you take soft wood cutting you do this just when the new growth start to harden. Shoots that are suitable for soft wood cuttings snap easily when bent and when they still have a gradation of leaf size. Don't let them dry out!
Soft wood cuttings are taken from partially mature wood of the currents seasons growth.
I hope this help you. I do prefer them growing from seed as they will often have an interesting base.

Good luck,

Chris