Am I just bad?

[matt_95]

Hi everyone, I'm having trouble with visualizing what I want my trees to look like in the future. I seem to think if broom style and others that don't exist. It occured to me that it might be because I have never seen a tree that looked like a formal upright or casading ect. I'm used to the way the native trees around here grow. Please don't hate me when I say this but I find those styles look rather fake to me. I assume trees grow like that in Japan? I do love the look of them though and I would love to know how you guys get your inspiration for your bonsai. Am I just no good at this or is it something I must develop? I want to create some beautiful trees but I don't know how, I really like cascading, informal upright and windswept best, along with broom style. Sorry if I've rambled a bit or it's disjointed, I tend to do that a lot

[matt_95]

Just re-read my post and fake is deffinatly the wrong word. In-natural is closer but still not quite right :/

[Svenster102]

I know what you mean. When its hard to imagine what they will look like in the future. Ive been buying some Buxus to use in mine but I dont know how they will grow the next season and how to develop them. This is my first season.

I figure it comes down to trial and error, what you do this year will develop next year then you have the experience of the last year and have an idea what will happen next year when you play with it some more. I look at some of the trees here and think how did they do that but it seems the most beautiful ones are made by people that have been doing it for years so its all experience.

Im not sure what you mean about fake looking exactly. Ive been looking at lotsof old trees on the net and around melbourne and you see how they grow and how they resemble the bonsai on this site.

Dont feel too bad I don't know how to do it either yet Ive read the theroy but Im sure it will just be experience for us new guys to do it for real. keep trying and well keep learning.

Sven.

[Handy Mick]

Matt, fake would be the right word you are trying to use.
I think most of us are trying to do the same, however 1 out of many might turnout right, this is just the average, you need to learn the basics first before you can experiment and add to the basics, you need to take things slow and know early when one of your bonsai won't be good in the long term and get rid of it, you also need to know what trees suit you better.
What I do because I am terrible at styling, I find a picture of a bonsai I like then find suitable stock that would be a good start for that bonsai, in effect copy, but use your own style, put your own signature on it, so copy then experiment, you learn heaps that way.
Mick

[makro]

Hi Matt,

I know exactly what you mean when you say "visualizing what I want my trees to look like in the future". I am relatively new to bonsai and suffer from the same thing as well.

So what I have started doing is looking at loads of Google pictures to get inspiration, there are a few sites mentioned in various posts here. The ones I frequent are webpages by bonsai artists like Walter Pall, Harry Harrington, Galleries of forums etc. Library books are great as well as you can study the trunk line of each tree. Also as you walk/drive past parks/reserves I look at tree structures as well.

The next step that I do, is trying to pick the trunk line. There are load of videos on youtube where they show bonsai styling and I try to pick which branches will be cut off by the person and they usually give an explanation as to you.

Next comes the exciting bit, implement what you have seen and learnt...

I find that the above is a cyclic process...

my

[kcpoole]

I agree with Macro and his process.
I am artistically Mute and find I have to do this otherwise I have no idea where to go.

Lookiing at really nice trees of others is great

Ken

[BonsaiPanda]

Hello Matt,
Dont be too hard on yourself. We are all here to learn about Bonsai, nobody was born knowing Bonsai and all it's subtleties. This forum and others are teaching us all everyday. Keep up the work and things will just drop into place. The people here are great fun and have a wealth of learned knowledge. I encourage you to keep posting pics and thoughts and we we all benefit from it.

Regards Panda

[Gerard]

Hi Matt,

"Fake"
Are you trying to say that you do not like the highly manicured look?
If you are able get hold of the book "Garly Branches Anchient Trees"

With regard to styling my best advice is to draw.
Draw badly but draw often and keep drawing sometimes you will see something in the trunk and branches that will work for you.

Attend workshops and demonstrations as often as possible, they will help you to understand what can be done.

Oh!..............

Did I say draw?

[Jamie]

gday Matt

mate, your just starting in this art form, it will definately take time. the best thing to do is keep trying, and trying, and trying, dont give up. it can take a few years before your trees start to look like anything resembling a bonsai unless you can afford the stock that has had time spent on it, what I mean by time is that it has been able to grow, develop some good trunk size, and have plenty of options in regards to branching. this is a good way to start as it gives you something that can be pleasing after a first style.

as for picturing trees and how they will be in the future you have had some good advice, draw and keep drawing. this will not only help your drawing skills but will also help you develop an eye for stock. as it has been said aswell, do some google searches or check out some good sites and find a tree you like, the try recreate it. this is an excellent way of developing skills and vision. and you get the hands on experience. working trees over a few years builds your skills and in a few years you will be amazed at what you used to work on to what you see now.

good luck and keep your head up!

[matt_95]

Thanks for the replies guys, I'll read through them again later, I'm not at home and I'm rushing. I don't think fake was the right word, what I ment is it's not what I think off when I think off a tree. That still isn't exactly what I mean, I'm having trouble explaining myself sorry.

[shibui]

Because we live in such a comfortable climate we are not often exposed to the tree shapes created by severe cold and gales of really high mountains and bitter winters. The trees we grow up with and see most have upright, spreading shapes so our minds are conditioned to think of these shapes as natural. This means our perception of what is 'natural' is challenged by some of the extreme styles that have evolved from the shapes of trees in extreme climates.

I find it is normal for Australians to have some trouble accepting the more extreme bonsai styles and even more truble creating them as we just do not have the experience of trees that grow like this.

This is probably one of the reasons that there is such a continuing debate about Austalian Native Styles. The majority of people at the last native bonsai show agreed that we do need to develop and cherish shapes and styles that reflect the natural shapes of our native trees rather than styling them in traditional Japanese bonsai shapes when growing Australian natives as bonsai.

My advice, Matt, would be to study Japanese styling and try to understand the reasons behind these shapes but grow trees you are happy with so you will enjoy your creations. note this is different from artistic aesthetics, many of which appear to be common to all cultures and are part of the styling guidelines. Some things just jarr on the optic/easthetic nerves.

[Mitchell]

Hey Matt, I too also have trouble visualizing styles. The styles we speak of are only categories, this image by john Naka I believe illustrates the fundamentals of style due to incline well.
I completed this image to its maxim by continuing it to completely inverted, lost that image though.

[Roger]

Great topic Matt. Certainly don't be too hard on yourself, other than needing to challenge yourself so that you strive to improve.

Much good advice in the string so far.

I know what you mean by 'fake'. Until I had the opportunity to struggle up a high mountain to the tree line, going through a variety of forest types, and then breaking out onto snow patches and being surrounded by dozens of minature trees, I really didn't know what people were trying to achieve. It was a magical experience. I've spent quite a lot of time searching in Australia and elsewhere for these kinds of places. They are there. Ocean headlands exposed to the southern ocean storms; deserts where wind strips away the soil to expose roots; sometimes flooded streams and seen the 'water swept' trees of shibui. If you get the chance or can plan to make the pilgramage, take it. Your effort to get there, find and see will be rewarded for a lifetime. You can then forget about what other people have seen. You will have been there yourself.

Roger

[Ali]

Hi Matt,
I know exactly what you mean, I look at the trees I have and just think what now , hopefully in time I will be able to advise people like me now, just starting out

[matt_95]

Thanks for the picture Mitchel, it helps a lot. What makes cascades hang down? Is it from snow forming at such high altitudes?

I'm really bad at drawing unless I am copying something. I'm going to go find pictures now of trees a like and try to copy them. I'm feeling a lot more confident now, thank you all very much. I'll get my self some stock to begin experimenting on. I'll have to find someone to take me hiking, dad got hit by a truck years ago but just recently it got a lot worse and he won't be able to do it. Would the glass house mountains be a good place to look?