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Re: Scoria versus Akadama
Posted: December 9th, 2008, 6:57 pm
by daiviet_nguyen
Hi Pup,
Thank you for the post. I must have a question, please.
Granite -- it sounds like hard-stone? Is this the stuff that they mix with tar to make road?
Sort of bluish in colour?
However 10 people 10 mixes all the best.
This comment makes me think of a comment by Mr. Craig Coussins -- also to that effect. But
he further says that when getting opinions about soil stuff, always take it from local experts. They
know the climate best.
I hope the doctor thing was nothing serious Pup.
Best regards,
Viet.
Re: Scoria versus Akadama
Posted: December 10th, 2008, 10:02 am
by Pup
Daiveit,
Thank you for your concern nothing serious apart from dying
seriously the blue stone you speak of is by the sounds of it blue metal. There is a post on that. The crushed granite I speak of is sold, as Aquarium sand in these fish shops.
It is very expensive bought this way. I buy it in 25kg bags from an industrial minerals distributor .
It is the same colour as Akadama when it is dry.
We have had to start buying in bulk as they put up the cost. From $7-80 a bag to $ 17-80 unless we bought a Ton at a time, so that is what we do it now cost us $10--00 a bag. I hope this has been of some help.The blue metal is OK but it must be washed to get rid of all the dust it also does not look good.
Pup
Re: Scoria versus Akadama
Posted: December 10th, 2008, 8:00 pm
by daiviet_nguyen
Hi Pup,
Thanks for the info Pup. I have never used the blue metal stuff before. I feel that because it is heavy, eventually it will fall down to the bottom.
And the drainage will suffer.
(Your comment on "a part from dying..." somehow makes me think of an old Australian comedy where the main character is Mr. Pit Bull
, who
calls his car Kingswood, and who thinks hair-dressing is not a really job... 
)
Regards,
Viet.
Re: Scoria versus Akadama
Posted: December 10th, 2008, 11:47 pm
by Pup
daiviet_nguyen wrote:Hi Pup,
Thanks for the info Pup. I have never used the blue metal stuff before. I feel that because it is heavy, eventually it will fall down to the bottom.
And the drainage will suffer.
(Your comment on "a part from dying..." somehow makes me think of an old Australian comedy where the main character is Mr. Pit Bull
, who
calls his car Kingswood, and who thinks hair-dressing is not a really job... )
Regards,
Viet.
Viet I am sure you mean Ted Bullpit of Kingswood country. Who has just polished the dip stick. I used to watch that show all the time. 
Ps if you mix it well it should not go to the bottom. Pup
Re: Scoria versus Akadama
Posted: February 20th, 2009, 4:03 pm
by mickster
We use our local Quincan (scoria) up here in NQ. It's readily available in 3mm and seems ideal.I've seen some mixes which are almost 100% Quincan and haven't heard any negative feed back.
Re: Scoria versus Akadama
Posted: February 20th, 2009, 6:43 pm
by Hector Johnson
Message Deleted
Re: Scoria versus Akadama
Posted: February 20th, 2009, 7:41 pm
by Pup
Hector Johnson wrote:I've just had a look at the viability of bauxite for potting bonsai.
It contains about 20% water, dry, and holds about 38% wet. The difference is available for plants if it's used as a growing medium.
I tracked down a Japanese paper on the subject that concluded it would be ideal for plant growth.
I'll grab some on the weekend and seive it to get consistent sizing. One of my figs needs repotting, so it will be my first victim.
It will be interesting what the results are Hector.
Over here the big aluminium refinery in Pinjara has an eco order to re grow the areas they mine.
The results are amazing. Having said that I do not know if they enrich the soil with bauxite.
The Melaleucas they plant grow very well. So I will have to make some enquirys. keep us posted please
Pup
Re: Scoria versus Akadama
Posted: February 20th, 2009, 9:33 pm
by Jow
Asus101 wrote:scoria is a lava stone. Its simply sharp and has holes. It wont soak up any water.
Akadama is clay based. it will soak up water and nutrients and like zeolite will release both back slowly.
From talking to other people maidenwell doesn't return moisture and nutrients.
I find that is not the case... i grow all my pines in 100% maidenwell diatomite it works great. When i was working in the nursery in Japan we used primarily Akadama of varying grades for every specis in the nursery, Deciduous got the same mix as the pines and junipers... only sometimes was charcoal added to the coniferous trees.
Re: Scoria versus Akadama
Posted: February 20th, 2009, 11:55 pm
by Asus101
Jow wrote:Asus101 wrote:scoria is a lava stone. Its simply sharp and has holes. It wont soak up any water.
Akadama is clay based. it will soak up water and nutrients and like zeolite will release both back slowly.
From talking to other people maidenwell doesn't return moisture and nutrients.
I find that is not the case... i grow all my pines in 100% maidenwell diatomite it works great. When i was working in the nursery in Japan we used primarily Akadama of varying grades for every specis in the nursery, Deciduous got the same mix as the pines and junipers... only sometimes was charcoal added to the coniferous trees.
The guys down here didn't like using it. They all claimed it wasn't returning moisture to the tree's.
I did notice that it drys out rather fast.
Re: Scoria versus Akadama
Posted: March 11th, 2009, 2:44 pm
by Woz
I recently bought an australian product very similar to Akadama, "red weipe pebbles" (from northers Qld) they look exacltly like the akadama shown in the photo above and cost a fraction of the price, I bought a 2kg bag for $8.95. My camera died so I have no photo to show you but I have provided a link
http://www.searle.com.au/DecorativePebbles.html I have started using it in a couple of plants but no verdict yet. If anyone else has used it or knows more about it I would like to hear it.
Re: Scoria versus Akadama
Posted: March 11th, 2009, 2:47 pm
by Asus101
Does it hold moisture at all?
Re: Scoria versus Akadama
Posted: March 11th, 2009, 3:07 pm
by Woz
Asus101 wrote:Does it hold moisture at all?
As i said I have only just used it in a couple of pots at this stage. Its made from weipa clay from Weipa, Nth Nth Qld, its quite pebbly and I just used it as a drainage medium in the base of a couple of pots. whats the best way to test for moisture retension?
Re: Scoria versus Akadama
Posted: March 28th, 2009, 7:44 pm
by fozz
Gday folks,
Here's some info about scoria and bonsai. I worked on a volunteer basis many years ago at a very large bonsai nursery here in Melbourne. At the time the mix that was used was what they called cactus mix which amounted to fine scoria and a very small amount of peat dust.
The scoria worked for a number of reasons such as, it has a very rough surface allowing for a large surface area full of holes which would retain water, being rough roots tended to split in two when hitting the particles and the rough surface allowed nutrient deposits to be held in the holes in the surface of the scoria.
The peat dust was added to the mix to give the plants a little extra water over the summer months.
This mix was amazingly free draining whilst keeping enough moisture to need watering only twice a day on the very hottest of days.
This mix was used for trees worth from $50.00 up to some of the priceless show trees, some of which I know had an estimated value of $20,000.00 +.
As far as I know they no longer use or sell this mix anymore due to cost and a change of staff over 15 years ago.
That being said I believe this same mix is readily available at many of the larger rock and soil suppliers, the problem being that being a specialised mix they wont do the mix except for commercial quantities.
Hope this helps,
Ross.
Re: Scoria versus Akadama
Posted: June 6th, 2009, 10:47 pm
by Damian Bee
Asus101 wrote:scoria is a lava stone. Its simply sharp and has holes. It wont soak up any water.
Akadama is clay based. it will soak up water and nutrients and like zeolite will release both back slowly.
From talking to other people maidenwell doesn't return moisture and nutrients.
Hi there, Scoria will absorb moisture and nutrient and make them accessible to roots-it is a porous rock. Scoria is also fairly stable, it will take a long while to break down and most (in Vic anyway) are around 6 on the pH scale. Zeolite and lignite have a fairly high cation exchange which allows a plant to better access nutrients.
Scoria is a viable substitute for the imported material at a fraction of the cost. Besides, if Bonsai started in Australia and our Bonsai masters used Scoria, would the rest of the world be crawling all over us for our scoria? You really need to get out and look around at garden supplies, 7mm screened Scoria is a very common material available in 20 kg bags for around $7.00 per bag, even smaller sizes do exist as another post has stated.
Scoria may not be suitable for every genus but it does have great drainage while still retaining moisture and does allow air movement in your mix too. One problem may be that being free draining, it may require more frequent application of fertiliser due to flushing. I have been toying around with different mediums for some time and find it to be good as an almost pure mix or as a additive with other material.
By the way, does a certain large hardware outlet pay sponsorship to this site? In this one topic I see their name too many times and there are so many better places to buy your goods. Support and get to know your smaller supplier or you will be left with nothing but below average.
Re: Scoria versus Akadama
Posted: June 7th, 2009, 7:44 am
by stymie
May I interject a link here which will give an indication of what medium we're using for
our trees. Check it out:-
http://www.bonsai4me.com/Basics/Basicscatlitter.htm