Scoria versus Akadama

[daiviet_nguyen]

At the risk of making a fool out of myself with this question, I have been hestitating posting this question,
but finally I mustered enough gut...

I have never used akadama before, simply because it is too expensive, and also it had been so far hard
to get.

I understand that akadama comes in three levels of hardness: soft, medium and hard. Depending on the
climate and the development stage of the trees, we should use appropriate type.

Based on what I have read about the characteristics of akadama, I cannot help but thinking that hard
akadama is pretty similar to scoria?

I feel stupid asking the above question, but it has been eating at me for a while now.

I do not know what everybody else think?

I have been using custom mixture of scoria, pine bark, Maidenwell (Australian product too, the particles
are whitish in colour, very dusty,) and general purpose potting mix Nu-Earth (Australian product, available
from Bunnings.)

Thank you and best regards,

V.

[Asus101]

scoria is a lava stone. Its simply sharp and has holes. It wont soak up any water.
Akadama is clay based. it will soak up water and nutrients and like zeolite will release both back slowly.
From talking to other people maidenwell doesn't return moisture and nutrients.

[Steven]

Hi Viet,
Great post and question mate! There were probably heaps of people questioning the same thing but only you had the guts to ask
Regards,
Steven

[kcpoole]

As Ace says, 1 is stone and will last forever, the other is Clay and will break down eventually. I have heard 2 years for the hard one, but have not tested it.

Scoria will not absorb any Water or nutrients, but will hold them in the pores in the stone. Thus realeasing them for the plant tok use as needed.

Scoria is only available in 10mm or larger size ( as far as I can find) which makes it unsuitable for put use as far as I can tell, and Akadama is available in much smaller size.
Akadama is a smooth ball and will not encourage root division as well.

[Joel]

I have heard of people using just scoria as soil. It does hold water, for sure, but im not sure about nutrients. I assume these people wold fert very heavily.

I'm using scoria in my test mix, but it is very large. It is somewhat smaller than what Ken is referring to, but not much. Also, i'm only using it in small amounts so that the mix will still hold enough water.

JayC

[Ash Barns]

I am trying to get onto 3mm scoria which I believe is referred to as 'Tennis Court' scoria. Someone suggested that a garden supplies place in Traralgon in the Latrobe Valley has it so I will try to source it there. Even using it as a top dressing would look heaps better for presentation.

Ash

[Jon Chown]

I have been growing this elm in scoria and bark fines for around 12 months now and it appears to be going ok.

Elm broom in scoria.jpg

Here is a close up of the surface and as I am the master at growing military fern in my pots, I have to say that another advantage in using this medium is the ease of weeding.

Scoria elm.jpg

I have asked before, but has anyone tried Bauxite (available at Bunnings). Here is a pic with a 5 cent coin.

Bauxite.jpg

Jon

[Ash Barns]

Jon has the bauxite got a smooth or rough surface? From what I can make out it it looks a bit like pebbles but it might be alright if you favour it.
Like the size of the scoria though.

Ash

[daiviet_nguyen]

Hi everybody,

Thank you for answering it. I appreciate the knowlege.

I am not a big fan of Maidenwell, but my dad gave them to me. I did return
the money to him though.

I think will try out: zeolite, bauxite next.

I did see scoria bags smaller than 10 mm in my local Bunnings store. But
they were from China.

Regards,

V.

[Jon Chown]

Jon has the bauxite got a smooth or rough surface?

Ash, the bauxite, although irregular in shape, definately has a smooth surface. I will try a mix of 50/50 of both and see how it goes.

The scoria that I used with the Elm was sifted from a bag and only the smaller grade used.

Jon

[Pup]

Hard Akadama is used by the top Bonsai sensei ( Masters ) of Japan and have been using it for Centuries.
They re pot there trees when they need it so some of the pines we see in Books have not been re potted for well over ten (10) years so I cant see it breaking down too quick. Having thought the same.
When Hirotoshi Saito was here in October he was asked what mix is used in Japan. His reply was Akadama.
For Mischelaneous trees of which all non Coniferous tree's are classified. Pure Akadama in various grades. For coniferous 50% Akadama 50% crushed gravel ( granite).
The cost and availability is what most find to be the problem. I am still trying to contact Arthur Robinson, I have been told he has suffered some Heart problems.
I have used Crushed granite and coco peat and a good commercial potting mix for 20 years I have been very happy with it. I have now substituted the potting mix with Akadama. Because we in the west can get it at a good price, if by chance we cannot get it any more or it becomes too expensive I will go back to my old mix.
The one thing about it is if you do use Akadama you must sift it to get the dust out. What the biggest problem is not sifting and using a too fine mesh to cover the drainage holes.
As with all soil products packaging and movement will cause some abrasion so you will always get dust.
The best thing about it is when sifted the differing sizes are used. The final sift produces the dust which you use to make your Muck with also a small amount where you want the moss to grow when preparing for a show. Mix the dust with shredded sphagnum moss and you will have a perfect mix for the muck you need for rock and slab plantings. Aka the Benjamina group. This is just Pup's opinion for what it is worth.
My trees like as you can see and in a hot dry climate, I need that moisture re tentative soil also the slow release action of the nutrients is also a bonus. I hope I have helped in some way. Always when this subject of soil comes up it does lead to discussion which is good.
However 10 people 10 mixes all the best.
We have two Bonsai nursery's in WA one has used the Basic mix I have used for 12 years since he started his nursery. The other has changed his mix 5 times.
He is now espousing the virtues of Chabasai a natural Zeolite Ideal for non-acid loving plants!! most of our Natives are acid loving. So this is when available the best thing since sliced bread according to him. However he has not used it yet just read about it.I could keep going but I have a Dr's appointment aren't you lucky so bye for now Pup.

[Jon Chown]

Pup says,
The cost and availability is what most find to be the problem.

I think that this statement is it in a nut shell - I can't believe that none of the many specialist Bonsai Nurseries on the East Coast have taken the time or trouble to import it. As it would be classified as a 'soil', it begs the question, does WA have easier quarintine laws than the rest of Australia?

I remember seeing a demo by one of the Japanese Masters (can't remember name) where they were doing a repot which was essentially just a slip pot. They removed the outer soil to the fine feeder roots and then just repotted in the same pot with a little new soil around the edges.

Jon

[Pup]

Jon our quarantine laws are very strict we cannot import from other States as freely as you guys.
The big worry when we gave our trees to the national collection we were worried. Some people wanted to loan them. They could not be guaranteed they would get them back. May be was the answer given.
That did not matter in the finish as the logistics of returning such trees led to having to preclude WA from loaning Just giving.
The soil as you put it, is dried then sterilised. Two sets of people have imported it one was far too exspensive so the people that wanted most decided they would.

[Jon Chown]

Thanks for the info Pup.

The soil as you put it, is dried then sterilised.

This would add significantly to the cost I assume. Is it done at quarantine?

Jon

[Pup]

Thanks for the info Pup.

The soil as you put it, is dried then sterilised.

This would add significantly to the cost I assume. Is it done at quarantine?

Jon

No Jon it is done before packaging. A bit like they treat wheat in the silos for weevils