let's talk about bonsai nurseries

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deejay335
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Re: let's talk about bonsai nurseries

Post by deejay335 »

Like many others making comment, I am quite a distance from any bonsai nurseries (in South Gippsland) so don't get to the Melbourne ones very often. I do drop in whenever I can if I am in the city. The two that I do get to are Gardenworld in Keysborough and the small nursery around Heatherton Road Dingley (can't remember the name) as my mother in law lives near there and I visit her all the time :whistle:

I find Gardenworld a bit too commercial and pricey but worth a drop in just for the "not for sale' plants they have on display. The other is good, a larger collection of stock in various sizes to work with and prices are pretty good. Fellow that runs it seems happy to chat about trees etc but is generally busy as it seems he runs it on his own?

Now I am in a club I am buying my wire and tools etc from the club to help boost the coffers rather than just chasing cheapest prices on the net (unless the variation is too great!!)
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Re: let's talk about bonsai nurseries

Post by JaseH »

deejay335 wrote:...and the small nursery around Heatherton Road Dingley (can't remember the name)
Bonsai Art is the Nursery in Heatherton. I'm not far up the road from it and so far its my favourite as well, good selection of stock, well priced compared to some other nurseries(even non-bonsai) that I've been to and the guys there are quite friendly and helpful.

Garden World has some really impressive trees on display and a good selection of pots which aren't badly priced.
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Re: let's talk about bonsai nurseries

Post by MoGanic »

I've found several nurseries asking for a high price for trees that have not been kept well or have not been grown correctly. Of course style is subjective, but if there are/is several crossing branches, poor taper, lack of nebari, a large scar or any other single major defect, the amount of time that is required to fix these issues is often greater than simply growing ones own stock.

Having said that there have been many trees that I'd purchase in a heartbeat if I could. I believe a tree is never finished and through continual refinement I can place my own stamp on trees and potentially improve on styling. This is how Japan ends up with 500+ year old trees.

Thats my 4c, thanks!

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Re: let's talk about bonsai nurseries

Post by bonsaisensation »

it seemed some of the more experienced members have lost faith in the quality of bonsai stock from bonsai nurseries and have started growing their own. well you are not alone, count me in as another one of those people. however. i started this post to try and find a way to change that, so hopefully one day we can all go to any bonsai nurseries and be inspired about our passion.

any other bright ideas????
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let's talk about bonsai nurseries

Post by Jow »

Hi Tien, Japan is a good example for producing high quality stock especially now yamadori is no longer collected in a large way. One model I saw in use there was hobby/small scale backyard growers supplying nurseries. They would grow a surplus and after choosing the cream for them selves they would on sell/ trade their surplus. This seemed to work well and kept the nursery stocked with interesting varied stock/bonsai. The key to this though is the hobby growers have to be quite skilled. Perhaps a stock growing workshop would be benificial?
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Re: let's talk about bonsai nurseries

Post by Pup »

bonsaisensation wrote:it seemed some of the more experienced members have lost faith in the quality of bonsai stock from bonsai nurseries and have started growing their own. well you are not alone, count me in as another one of those people. however. i started this post to try and find a way to change that, so hopefully one day we can all go to any bonsai nurseries and be inspired about our passion.

any other bright ideas????
My reason for not visiting Bonsai nurseries or for that matter nurseries in general is I have all I need, in supplies and trees. Unless it is something I have run out of like wire. As I make my own mix from club ingredients, and if I need a pot I commission it from a an Australian potter.
Also we only have 2 Bonsai nurseries operating on a full time basis and one on a ad hoc time scale.

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Re: let's talk about bonsai nurseries

Post by MoGanic »

bonsaisensation wrote:it seemed some of the more experienced members have lost faith in the quality of bonsai stock from bonsai nurseries and have started growing their own. well you are not alone, count me in as another one of those people. however. i started this post to try and find a way to change that, so hopefully one day we can all go to any bonsai nurseries and be inspired about our passion.

any other bright ideas????
I think the main difference between us and japan is specialised bonsai nurseries for growing, styling and refinement.

In aus, a nursery attempts to take on all these roles alone and often I hear complaints of lack of time to tend to each individual tree.

I think if we moved towards the same or a similar structure we might end up with better trees in the long run and a better international standing as far as quality of bonsai is concerned.
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Re: let's talk about bonsai nurseries

Post by GavinG »

I doubt that there are enough bonsai growers in Australia to support the complex and intensive industry that happens in Japan. There, it's a national sport; here, I doubt whether there'd be more than a few thousand of us scattered around Australia. I grow my own, for preference - it's personal, I'm involved from the ground up. They are part of my life, like my hands.

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Re: let's talk about bonsai nurseries

Post by bonsaisensation »

i think the first generation of quality bonsai growers are playing the role of a sacrifice branch in bonsai term: they put in the hard work of strengthening and thickening the bases of our bonsai community, and when their work is done, they will be forgotten but their work will benefit those afterwards.

regards

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Re: let's talk about bonsai nurseries

Post by Christiaan »

Tien,

I too was there at the weekend with the Yarra valley group.

I watched this thread with interest and I thought I might ad my persepcgtive which I think is a little differenct from the stock persepctive.

I have visited the old A to Z Bonsai now closed, Garden world and Bonsai art as well as the new iteration of the nursery at Mount Evelyn. Each is unique in there own way, and I hope my reflection is useful to you. I also indicate that I am a very enthusiastic beginner, so my perspective comes from lurking on the internet for a few years and almost two years with a club. So I guess my contribution to this discussion is about the visuals and the experience rather than the stocking itself, as other far more experienced have covered that quite well for you.

So let me begin by saying that all the nurseries I describe below have the same features such as providing all the right stuff, wire pots, starters and established plants, as far as I am concerned, and I hope that by outlining what I see as different might be of use to you.

I find that Bonsai Art is a very tranquil setting - given that it is very near main roads, and an airport, and that sense of tranquility puts you in a frame of mind to wander and contemplate. I can't really explain it any better, but would find myself spending hours there partially for the ambiance of the place.

Garden world is amongst a bigger more bustling series of nurseries and I am struck by the two types of bonsai on sale, starters and what I would call well established pre bonsai, ready for a final trim to become "bonsai" for the first time. (I can hear the more experience people on the forum going "what is he on about?" :o :? :D ). I find looking at stock while people in the cafe next to the window are sipping lattes to be slightly disturbing... :lol: but interestingly I have never bought anything from there even thought I have been in about four times to "have a look". Can't really say why.

Mount Evelyn has been a nice place to visit an at the time I last visited it was still being established so the feel has most likely changed, but as my closest venue I would hope to spend some time there. But as it set up, it too had a more tranquil feel that I would associate with the nurseries in Japan -having never been there it is my assumption only.

Then I come to your nursery. Quite frankly I was blown away when I walked through the shed and into an expanse that I found quite daunting, and as such found it hard to take it all in. A few personal things that other locations have that I think would make the experience for me better, and therefore I hope for others, is to have prices on everything, as quite a few items didn't, and while most of the stock was in great condition, the odd dead plant here and there detracts from the overall experience. That said you had plants from $3 to $15,000 - I so wanted one of those :o :cry: :shock:

That said the location is wonderful, and of course I bought some tube stock, some more advanced training stock, and the really odd Chinese elm, that I have continually stared at wondering why I bought it, and then having fifty ideas flood in at once :whistle: :lost:

So I come away from your nursery with a memory that I spent a great deal of time coming to terms with the flow and lay out of the place, and next time I visit that won't be an issue for me but for what it's worth, I find those nurseries set up with that flow and tranquility in mind speak to me as more authentic bonsai nurseries, again based purely on speculation on my part rather than any genuine experience.

So for me the visual and flow of a location is an important factor as well as the stock, materials, accessories and feature trees. I will definitely be back - especially if that pine tree is still there.

Hope this was of assistance.
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Re: let's talk about bonsai nurseries

Post by Josh »

When I was at Ray's in Sydney, he had a huge trident maple worth a couple K. Totally un styled but huge base and good taper. He said he can't sell it here cause no one will pay the price for it. He said he can and does sell them to international buyers but Aussies don't see the value, time taken to grow, time taken to get the big nabari.

Tien, you have a couple of trees I'm keeping my eye on worth decent coin, BUT at the moment I simply can't afford it (slowly saving). I have had to reign in my spending on bonsai a bit lately. Instead of buying smaller trees I'd like to buy 1 or 2 larger quality trees. To do this I have to limit my spending and try to save some coin to buy the right tree I would to have in my collection. Unfortunately the down side to this is you don't get the smaller sales I would have made in the mean time. This does not reflect the bonsai nurseries in any way, just my current situation.
Tien, I haven't been to visit for a while cause I simply can't spend anything significant at the moment (basically just wire for now) and hate wondering around your nursery without buying something. I know the time and effort you put into your trees and hate being just another "looker".
I do agree though, I walk into some places and see the price they are asking and can not work out how they justify the price they ask (poor quality stock). I am more than happy to pay for quality stock when I can afford it as it can knock years of the growing time for me.

Josh
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Re: let's talk about bonsai nurseries

Post by bki »

Hi Tien,
Christiaan and Josh have covered everything that I want to say.
I haven't been to your place (on top of my list) but I am very familiar with the nurseries that are mentioned.
Yes the tranquil environment of bonsai nurseries has the "recall factor" in that industry.
I am an amateur (only a few years in bonsai) but like Josh, I have given up buying young starters and prefer to buy fewer but more advance stock trees.
Time wise, it is beneficial but that is just my personal opinion and always open for criticism.
more trees.....
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Re: let's talk about bonsai nurseries

Post by bonsaisensation »

thank you everyone for your inputs :tu: :tu: :tu: :tu:
i find it's important to talk about these things to improve our level of bonsai in gereral and we should keep them coming.

thanks Chris for your thoughts on all the bonsai nurseries. i would not consider myself running a retail bonsai nursery as those other ones you mentioned. i think i am more of a bonsai grower therefore i have often overlooked those important aspects of retail experience. thanks again for the reminder. :tu: :tu:
Josh wrote:
Tien, I haven't been to visit for a while cause I simply can't spend anything significant at the moment (basically just wire for now) and hate wondering around your nursery without buying something. I know the time and effort you put into your trees and hate being just another "looker".

Josh
i was just wondering why you have disappeared from the face of the Earth :whistle: :whistle:
i guess i gave the wrong impression with my very first question of this thread. the bottom line that i wanted to get to was "letting the bonsai nurseries know what we want and what matters to us and how we can help them get there".

regards

Tien
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Re: let's talk about bonsai nurseries

Post by bonsaisensation »

Jow wrote: Perhaps a stock growing workshop would be benificial?
thanks Joe, would you like to elaborate on that idea?
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Re: let's talk about bonsai nurseries

Post by Josh »

bonsaisensation wrote:
Jow wrote: Perhaps a stock growing workshop would be benificial?
thanks Joe, would you like to elaborate on that idea?
Maybe this is something clubs could look at doing more so. Having a grower come and talk about the time, money and effort taken to grow quality stock. I know when I first started (as I'm sure most did) I thought getting cheap plants from a normal nursery was the best way. Don't get me wrong, I have got some great bargains from normal nurseries, but I got a lot more rubbish. I think for newbies in particular they struggle to see the value of quality grown stock. If time was spent in clubs explaining the value of good stock I think people would buy from bonsai nurseries from an earlier stage.

Tien, the other reason for not just dropping in is I know you are busy and hate wasting your time just looking. I love spending time in your nursery and could wander around for a long time just looking. I find inspiration from looking at your trees, seeing you develop stock but feel guilty not spending money when I visit. I often look at how you develop branching and look at your wiring and branch placement when wondering around, not just looking for trees to buy.
I promise I'll drop in soon. :tu:

Josh
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