Lack of Sun

[Rory]

No problem guys, I'm not sure what you were expecting with pictures, but our trials that we take are primarily young seedlings that we have cut back and if they respond well to heavy pruning and lack of sun and heavy root removal then we add them to the list. We only trial seedlings, as you can imagine, it becomes quite costly when trying so many different varieties that by losing a lot of them, it makes it too expensive to try older stock.

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Acacia Parramattensis

This species is a beautiful material to use. It has bipinnate leaves, so each section is one leaf. The foliage is so fine, it is really beautiful, and I mean FINE. Each little tiny 'segment' is about 1-2mm wide and like a rounded oblong. It is very cute. The material buds back right back to the trunk, making it easy to wait for new branch development. The older hard trunk is still very pliable and easily shaped. It can be defoliated no problem, and recovers well. It tolerates long periods of no water and excess heat. Being acacia, it looks so cute when the leaves fold up at night, then slowly open at dawn. Very lovely feeling when you brush your hand through the tiny foliage, like a feather. We have instantly cut 50% of roots off at purchase of these, and they have responded well. It is a bit prone to scale and caterpillars who seem to love this variety, but that is easily fixed just by sight and removal. The picture below was taken before a cut back, and it has since produced a lot more foliage. Plans for this particular specimen are to create a literati, and bring the structure down more to create a more arched trunk. I realize acacia are always a possible disaster because of their lifespan, but as they implied in the movie 'Bladerunner', some lives are shorter than others, but burn much brighter.

Acacia Parramattensis picture below:


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Acacia Spectabilis

This species is nice material to use. It has pinnate leaves, so each section is one leaf but looks a bit stragglier than Parramattensis. I was told it has a beautiful display of wattle flowers, but is short lived. The nurseryman told me that if fed well and looked after, it may live longer than planted in the ground, so time will tell on this one. It responds very well to pruning, grows fast, and is quite hardy. I have been told that once it flowers, that is where it derives its name.

Acacia Spectabalis picture below:


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Callistemon Linearis

Not much to say about this stock other than good material to use, back buds well, responds well to heavy pruning and cutting back, tolerates quite a bit, and more importantly lack of sun, as you are already aware.

Callistemon Linearis picture below:


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Callistemon Pinifolius

This is a stock that very much, particularly appealed to me, apart from the fact the nurseryman said it should do well with the conditions where we live and lack of sunlight, but seeing the beautiful colour of the foliage and that distinctly unusual foliage on a callistemon was what appealed to me most about this stock. I love the look of the base of the new buds as they appear and the leaves as it gets older. This picture doesn't do the foliage justice, as it is the older stock that when you look at the leaves it is beautiful to look at.

Callistemon Pinifolius picture below:


MAKE SURE YOU LOOK AT THIS LOVELY PICTURE BELOW TOO...
The below is a stock photo from ERA, and a look at the foliage of this specimen, and the reason I am excited to try this:
https://www.eranurseries.com.au/p/285-ca ... olius.aspx

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Callistemon Violaceus

This is just a no brainer. Does well without sunlight, but has beautiful flowers... however, not having a lot of sun may prevent me from seeing too many of these flowers Time will tell. It responds well to everything, so it is a keeper.

Callistemon Violaceus picture below:


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[GavinG]

Thanks for the info,

Gavin

[Rory]

More trialled and confirmed updates for strong shade.

Attempt:

Eucalyptus scoparia
Eucalyptus/Corymbia ficifolia
Green island fig
Syzygium smithii (lilly pilly)
Ficus coronata (sandpaper fig)
Taxodium distichum

Allocasuarina equisetifolia is still undecided. The foliage remains beautifully dark green, but it grows very, very slowly due to the lack of sun, so it is a hit/miss recommendation.

Do not attempt:

All pines, conifers and banksia that I have attempted are now officially dead. Awesome. Marvellous. Thank you shade.
Metasequoia glyptostroboides (I thought these would tolerate shade, but stick to Taxodiums instead).

[Jarad]

Hey Rory,

I believe you are allowed to chop back 10% of a tree every year... Who says you can't chop out the bottom 10%...

Also, since the recent storms you "should" be able to raise the issue to council that the trees pose a safety risk to your house and family. Not to mention that Aussie natives notoriously drop branches. If they don't bite for that, with the El Nino event we will be experiencing drier than normal conditions for an unknown period of time. In the event of a bush fire in summer, having the trees so close to your house could potentially be fatal to your family.

These days as soon as you mention the word "safety" people cringe a little.

On a side note, I guess these are decent arguments about safety, not just the well being of your trees.

[MoGanic]

Hey Rory,

I believe you are allowed to chop back 10% of a tree every year... Who says you can't chop out the bottom 10%...

Also, since the recent storms you "should" be able to raise the issue to council that the trees pose a safety risk to your house and family. Not to mention that Aussie natives notoriously drop branches. If they don't bite for that, with the El Nino event we will be experiencing drier than normal conditions for an unknown period of time. In the event of a bush fire in summer, having the trees so close to your house could potentially be fatal to your family.

These days as soon as you mention the word "safety" people cringe a little.

On a side note, I guess these are decent arguments about safety, not just the well being of your trees.

You know, I had the same thoughts reading this thread to catch up. I'd be quite concerned with the safety of my family in such a situation.

Remain safe!

Mo

[Rory]

Yes, I have been cutting back quite a few trees over the past few years. Recently cut one down a few more too. But on the plus side, it gives you insight into how and what to recommend to people in the same predicament that don't have the option of plentiful sun.

[Jarad]

But on the plus side, it gives you insight into how and what to recommend to people in the same predicament that don't have the option of plentiful sun.

This is true. I have a feeling that my elevation helps my trees get that sun. Spent quite a bit of time out on the balcony playing with my trees (torturing some little junipers) on the weekend and it was definitely short and t-short weather sitting in the sun.

Do the A. Parramattensis have a tendancy to keep the green bark all through adult life? I walk past one every day that's about 2.5-3.5m tall, 8cm thick and the trunk is all green.

[Rory]

Do the A. Parramattensis have a tendancy to keep the green bark all through adult life? I walk past one every day that's about 2.5-3.5m tall, 8cm thick and the trunk is all green.

Sorry mate, I don't really follow. Acacia parramattensis develops gray bark as it matures.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... s-tree.jpg

In regards to parramattensis like a lot of Acacia, the green exterior is only on young branches. There are something like over 1000 species in the genus Acacia and many look very similar, so I doubt the species you are referring to is parramattensis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Acacia_species

[Jarad]

There is a mature acacia tree near my work with the exact same foliage that you have posted above under Acacia Parramattensis, but the thick main trunk is still green like the young growth. I'll take a photo and upload it.

[Rory]

There is a mature acacia tree near my work with the exact same foliage that you have posted above under Acacia Parramattensis, but the thick main trunk is still green like the young growth. I'll take a photo and upload it.

Yep, I did understand what you meant. But on visual comparison, a lot of Acacia foliage look very much the same. In fact, when I bought this guy, the oodles of Acacia that were available to buy that day was almost impossible to identify without using the labels:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... leaves.JPG
http://www.ngkenya.com/photos/acacia_xanthophloea.jpg
http://keyserver.lucidcentral.org/weeds ... rroo10.jpg
http://www.tropicalforages.info/key/For ... ica_01.jpg

for just a sample.

[Jarad]

Yep, I did understand what you meant. But on visual comparison, a lot of Acacia foliage look very much the same. In fact, when I bought this guy, the oodles of Acacia that were available to buy that day was almost impossible to identify without using the labels:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... leaves.JPG
http://www.ngkenya.com/photos/acacia_xanthophloea.jpg
http://keyserver.lucidcentral.org/weeds ... rroo10.jpg
http://www.tropicalforages.info/key/For ... ica_01.jpg

for just a sample.

Holy cow, that's a lot of acacia...

I get what you mean now.

[Joshua]

Hey all,

Very happy to have found this thread. Some good information.

I've got an east-facing balcony, slightly oriented southward but not by much.
Also in front of our building are a couple of annoying Mediteranean Cypresses that provide a a bit of extra shade mostly around winter (and plenty of allergy-inducing pollen). So we get mostly full morning sun for most of the year, but of course full shade in the afternoon.


One question, probably too late to ask as I've just planted some seeds at the start of the year: I don't see Eucalyptus Camaldulensis mentioned so far, what about those?

Otherwise there's a whole lot more I'm looking to try - mels, eucs, she-oaks, chinese elm, mirabelle plum - good to see that either they can handle it or there are 'options'.

If you can't space them apart then you own too many.

or maybe not just yet...

[Rory]

One question, probably too late to ask as I've just planted some seeds at the start of the year: I don't see Eucalyptus Camaldulensis mentioned so far, what about those?

I did trial E. camaldulensis, but to be honest I don't recall why I gave them up.

Most Eucs should be okay if you have full morning sun. Full afternoon sun is preferable, but you have to take what you can get. If you are only going to have morning sun only, then try not to continually over-water your trees. Sometimes in winter when the sun is weak and low and the temps are low, you may not need to water for many days, depending on your drainage.

[Joshua]

Most Eucs should be okay if you have full morning sun. Full afternoon sun is preferable.

Ah this is interesting.

We do have a little balcony on the other side too, so west-northwest facing. Note that I'm in europe so my North is your south.
It gets some direct afternoon sun but I think fewer total hours of sunlight. It also in general gets a lot more wind so not ideal.

I've been assuming that for the most part the morning sun is better because the afternoon sun can get a bit too hot/harsh. I'm not surprised though that some aus natives might prefer it.

Any other species like that in particular?

Maybe I'll have to do a bit of an experiment and put half of those seedlings out the back

[Rory]

I've been assuming that for the most part the morning sun is better because the afternoon sun can get a bit too hot/harsh. I'm not surprised though that some aus natives might prefer it.

Pretty much all natives that we use for bonsai grow best in strong afternoon full sun. There are a few exceptions, but the usual suspects adore it.