let's talk about bonsai nurseries

[bonsaisensation]

Hi inspired
I have some but they are all in bonsai pots. I agree with u about getting larger ones now. I still know of a few places up in the hills that might have them. It's not just the cypresses, larger spruces in nursery pots have also gone out of existence too.

[Inspired]

Cypresses and spruces in larger pots going out of existence??

Hmm sounds like the story of the ever precious Itoigawa Shimpaku
One can read here: viewtopic.php?f=131&t=18585

Yes indeed such a rarity! And what a treasure find this makes them!

I'd be very interested if you are able to visit middle earth to find me "my precious"

.. then again you can just order them right

[bonsaisensation]

Hi inspired
I will look into finding them for u.
As with itoigawa shimpaku, well, let's just say, I am making them available in the near future.

[Inspired]

yes please do!

Very excited to hear what you have in the making

I was almost going to drop by Saturday just past but half an hour would have just been a tease

Will be sure to visit soon as I have not been to your piece of paradise

[Scott Roxburgh]

Canberra Bonsai Society is running a JBP seedling project but mostly just growing this year.

I think most people's are still alive, mine suffered a little from separation anxiety, but are back on track now. I've wired the trunks for shohin, so fertiliser, sun and water is the name of the game this year.

I'll see if I can get some pics.

[adge0001]

Hi Tien,
I visit your place as much as I can.... When I have the funds, basically.

I like your row of conifers mainly, but can't help feeling like I might be missing a little gem stashed in your "staff only" section. [FACE WITH TEARS OF JOY]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

[bonsaisensation]

Hi adge0001
Yes the 'staff only' section, I have been quite loose with showing customers what we grow in there. After some discussion with the "staff", we've decided to keep it really "staff only". As someone mentioned the other day, a nursery must have a consistent flow of new stock, so keeping it "staff only" helps us do just that.

I thank all the good "friends" who have been coming to visit regularly. Been able to speak to customers keep us sane and in the game. There are days when we get no customers, it does make us wonder what's wrong with us. Maybe it's just me, but the moral support is way more important than financial support.

Regards

Tien

[treeman]

Cypresses and spruces in larger pots going out of existence??

I presume you mean Ch obtusa? These and spruces (ezo) are so slow growing that it is not really worth raising them commercially. ( I am still propagating ezo spruce now and then because it is supreme bonsai material and I love them and one day they will be in high demand )

They will take 5 times as long as a black pine so what price are you going to sell them for? 5 times as much? I don't think so Nobody would part with the cash.

Even shimpaku at the same trunk diameter as a black pine should really be 4 times the price.

[JaseH]

I think people will pay a premium for decent stock that has been grown correctly for bonsai. Personally I would prefer to pay $400+ for a nice sized pre-bonsai Chamaecyparis that has decent nebari, been root trained from a young age and good branching and foliage, over say $150 for a similar aged garden nursery tree that has had no root work, nebari faults and foliage on the ends of long bare branches. Whether or not the eventual selling price is worth the investment, I don't know?

A quick word on BonsaiSensation - Tien sells more than well trained pre-bonsai stock - he gives away knowledge and enthusiasm for free! He really is working towards developing and injecting knowledge into the bonsai community. Hopefully this will pay him back in the long run as a larger more knowledgeable bonsai community will mean more successful nurseries. But whenever I visit or chat to Tien I never get the feeling he's selling anything other than a passion for bonsai, I'm sure at times he's probably talked me out of buying something for my own sake! I'm sure there are also others in the community like Tien, but just speaking from my experience as a BonsaiSensation regular!

[bonsaisensation]

Cypresses and spruces in larger pots going out of existence??

I presume you mean Ch obtusa? These and spruces (ezo) are so slow growing that it is not really worth raising them commercially. ( I am still propagating ezo spruce now and then because it is supreme bonsai material and I love them and one day they will be in high demand )

yes treeman, they are slow. but it does not stop me from growing them though. in fact, i've recently bought a large Ezo spruce with the sole intention of taking cuttings off it in the coming years. do you mind sharing some tips in propagating them?

They will take 5 times as long as a black pine so what price are you going to sell them for? 5 times as much? I don't think so Nobody would part with the cash.

Even shimpaku at the same trunk diameter as a black pine should really be 4 times the price.

this is the biggest dilemma all bonsai growers will have to deal with at some point. it is really a gamble to decide whether or not to invest the time and money into growing and training(the regular root pruning, wiring, shaping, feeding, weeding, watering, taking wire off, reapplying the wire, cutting the strong leader off to replace with a thinner branch to get taper,..............).
i have certainly come away on the shorter end of the stick after investing 12 years in training(involves all of the above process) some 150 junipers to struggle to sell them for $200.
this is where i think a more collaborative relationship and system between growers and the wider bonsai community can help to let the growers know exactly what is in demand. and the bonsai community can have a certainty of exactly what to expect from us in 5, 10, 15, 20.......years time. well....just a thought.

regards

[treeman]

in fact, i've recently bought a large Ezo spruce with the sole intention of taking cuttings off it in the coming years. do you mind sharing some tips in propagating them?

And give away all my precious secrets? .....Just kidding..I take heel cuttings in autumn about 3 inches long and stick them in propagating sand with a touch of peatmoss. Under mist or hand mist often. rooting hormone doesn't seem to make much difference. When they have roots put them in a brighter spot but leave in the same container for a year before removing and trimming the roots.

i have certainly come away on the shorter end of the stick after investing 12 years in training(involves all of the above process) some 150 junipers to struggle to sell them for $200.

[/quote]

It's just a case of over-supply at the moment. Hang in there and things will change....If we don't die first.
I recently read a BT article were they said production nurseries in Japan will burn 10 year old ground stock if no one wants them.

[bonsaisensation]

And give away all my precious secrets? .....Just kidding..I take heel cuttings in autumn about 3 inches long and stick them in propagating sand with a touch of peatmoss. Under mist or hand mist often. rooting hormone doesn't seem to make much difference. When they have roots put them in a brighter spot but leave in the same container for a year before removing and trimming the roots.

thanks treeman, i was told to take cutting when the heel comes off easily. i tried couple of weeks ago, didn't work. i will try again in autumn like you suggested.

i have certainly come away on the shorter end of the stick after investing 12 years in training(involves all of the above process) some 150 junipers to struggle to sell them for $200.

It's just a case of over-supply at the moment. Hang in there and things will change....If we don't die first.
I recently read a BT article were they said production nurseries in Japan will burn 10 year old ground stock if no one wants them.[/quote]

i don't think that there are too many bonsai nurseries in melbourne with the kind of junipers i have. in fact bonsai art is the only one i know of. maybe it's a case of everyone has a couple of them already, therefore no demand.
as far as burning unwanted stock, i have read about it too. just couldn't bring myself to do it.
i have potted the majority of them into bonsai pots now and many of them have been cut down to produce shohin or chuhin size trees. it's my last attempt to try to get rid of them. i am definitely not growing them again.

thanks for sharing.

[kcpoole]

i have potted the majority of them into bonsai pots now and many of them have been cut down to produce shohin or chuhin size trees. it's my last attempt to try to get rid of them. i am definitely not growing them again.

thanks for sharing.

Post a couple of photos with a story about their history. I would be interested to see what does not sell well..

Ken

[bonsaisensation]

hi Ken
here are a couple of the last remaining junipers with a standard 1.25L bottle for scale. the circumference of the trunk at the base is about 14cm. these two are being prepared to go to the Geelong bonsai show.
they started out from the common 8 inch staked junipers in 2002. they were repotted into 12 inch pots in 2004 and staked one more time. they have then been just let grow until 2009 when my staff(John) started to wire and give them a more definitive shape(that included mainly chopping off the big umbrella head then proceeded to wire a more pleasing continuation of the trunklines). they have been wired three times now and the main job was to keep the top in checked and strengthen the lower branches.

IMG_0589a.jpg

IMG_0590.JPG

us growers are not after sympathy or pity or anything of that nature. i do what i do because i love doing them. i know i am doing relatively well financially, compared to a few other nurseries in victoria.
this post was to know what people think about bonsai nurseries in general and whether or not we are meeting the demands of the bonsai communities. if we are not, then what can we do more or do less to cater for the needs in 10, 20, 50............years time.
one thing that i think would have frustrated Hirotoshi saitoh after coming to visit australia for the last 20 odd year, would have been the quality of trees that are brought to him. i don't think people are bringing better quality materials to him after all this time and i believe, us growers, have a lot to do with it. and this post was an attempt to get to the bottom of it.

i thank all those who have taken the time to participate in the conversation.

regards

[bonsaisensation]

hi Ken
here are a couple of the last remaining junipers with a standard 1.25L bottle for scale. the circumference of the trunk at the base is about 14cm. these two are being prepared to go to the Geelong bonsai show.
they started out from the common 8 inch staked junipers in 2002. they were repotted into 12 inch pots in 2004 and staked one more time. they have then been just let grow until 2009 when my staff(John) started to wire and give them a more definitive shape(that included mainly chopping off the big umbrella head then proceeded to wire a more pleasing continuation of the trunklines). they have been wired three times now and the main job was to keep the top in checked and strengthen the lower branches.

IMG_0589a.jpg

IMG_0590.JPG

us growers are not after sympathy or pity or anything of that nature. i do what i do because i love doing them. i know i am doing relatively well financially, compared to a few other nurseries in victoria.
this post was to know what people think about bonsai nurseries in general and whether or not we are meeting the demands of the bonsai communities. if we are not, then what can we do more or do less to cater for the needs in 10, 20, 50............years time.
one thing that i think would have frustrated Hirotoshi saitoh after coming to visit australia for the last 20 odd year, would have been the quality of trees that are brought to him. i don't think people are bringing better quality materials to him after all this time and i believe, us growers, have a lot to do with it. and this post was an attempt to get to the bottom of it.

i thank all those who have taken the time to participate in the conversation.

regards