AusBonsai

squizzy wrote:Hi treeman. Good points but shouldn't bonsai nursery be able to sell both standards of tree. Much like a car yard that has a few options and not just a lot full of ferraris.
My thought on those black pines. If you had spent good money on ground grown stock and didn't inspect the roots isn't that a tiny bit foolish.

I think there is merit in good quality stock but unfortunately they come with a price because I would imagine the labour involved is much more. Not everyone can afford ferraris and not everyone wants Ferraris. Maybe the nursery should infom them as they are paying something like " you do know you e picked the daewoo and not the Ferrari don't you"

Just a thought

Squizz

Hi Squizz,

It goes without saying that anyone can sell whatever they like. There's no act of parliament yet...but if I was a law maker
But perhaps you are missunderstanding what I'm talking about. Good material: Seedlings, tapered trunks without branches but some movement and good nebari, develped material which can be easily improved by wiring, grafting, pruning etc.
Bad material: A 4 year old cedar wired to look like a stork about to land, A pathetic little tree in a bonsai pot with pebbles glued into place, any material which has been grown as a garden plant with a bit of pruning to ''bush it up'', black pines wired to resemble a cobra comming out of a basket or a dog who has taken a dump while turning 360 degrees a couple of times. There is no shortage of crap out there. The market is flooded with it. And unfortunately it costs the same (and sometimes more) as the good stuff.

By the way, Tien is one of the VERY FEW suppliers who takes time to pre-work his material to a good standard before he offers it. There are not many others from what I've seen. Mostly what is offered is very rushed (or neglected) and will never end up very good without years of re-working if ever.

There are just no short cuts in bonsai...but that is half the charm of it.

treeman wrote:By the way, Tien is one of the VERY FEW suppliers who takes time to pre-work his material to a good standard before he offers it. There are not many others from what I've seen. Mostly what is offered is very rushed (or neglected) and will never end up very good without years of re-working if ever.

Hi Treeman, i dont know you and please dont take offence but you make some very sweeping statements. This sort of statement covers a lot of ground. I dont know how extensively you have travelled and if your statement covers Australia or just Victoria. If only Victoria then i have never met you. I have travelled most of Australia and checked out Nursery's who do good work and your observation would include them and maybe they are scratching their heads also

treeman wrote:...black pines wired to resemble a cobra comming out of a basket or a dog who has taken a dump while turning 360 degrees a couple of times...

It's off topic, but I'm not going to let this one go unchallenged, especially since a cursory reading of your post archive shows the same hostile attitude time and time again. The goal of Chinese bonsai (penjing - in the West they're the same damned thing) is to find and explore the unique character of a particular tree. I'd rather a tree with artfully highlighted character, even if it breaks your arbitrary rules, than one that's been crafted (butchered) to resemble a Japanese textbook photo. Perhaps this is yet another reason why your more Japanese than the Japanese bonsai community is fading into oblivion...

treeman wrote:I fully understand the REASON for producing quick and easy trees....to make a profit and pay the bills. But there is a right way and a wrong way to do things. .

hi treeman
i agree with you about there is right way and wrong way of doing mallsai. i personally don't like the term "mallsai", i often refer them to customers as my "commercial line of production". they cater for people's initial fascination for bonsai and give them something to embark on the journey.
i don't enjoy producing them to sell in the shopping centres at all, but i still need to. in fact, preparing mallsais are the most labour intensive work here at the nursery. i won't go into the details and bore you with it. i look forward to the day that i don't have to rely on them. but until that happens, i can only aim for producing higher quality commercial bonsais.

JaseH wrote:So I dont know - is it a case of 'any publicity is good publicity' or does it create a false cheapened image of the real art?

hi Jase
i don't know either. one thing i do know is that it gives me the publicity to reach out to people with interests in bonsai and bring them here to the nursery where we can share anything bonsai with each other.
i am still relatively unknown in the bonsa community and i intend to keep it that way. i don't yet have the quality stock to back up what i believe in. but as you all know, quality needs time.

lastly, i've noticed some members are offended by some of the comments following my initial question. my sincere apologies to you . we are all passionate about what we do and have an opinion on how to do it. the diversity of what goes on here gives us every possible perspective to view and grow bonsai in australia. 4

regards

SouthernSky wrote:I'd rather a tree with artfully highlighted character, even if it breaks your arbitrary rules, than one that's been crafted (butchered) to resemble a Japanese textbook photo.

Southernsky, can you further elaborate what you mean by artfully highlighted character that hasn't been inspired or influenced by as you call it Japanese textbook photo trees?

Let's not forget what Japan has done for this great art that we all enjoy?? Your unfinished website slogan seems to be "uniquely Australian" which to me implies Australian trees and Australian way for bonsai only.. well lets see how much influence "Japanese textbook" inspired trees and techniques you end up employing in your bonsai nursery..

SouthernSky wrote:Perhaps this is yet another reason why your more Japanese than the Japanese bonsai community is fading into oblivion...

Are you serious coz I highly doubt it..

Oh btw.. is that a Japanese Maple in your collection on your website?

Don't see no gumtrees..

bodhidharma wrote:

treeman wrote:By the way, Tien is one of the VERY FEW suppliers who takes time to pre-work his material to a good standard before he offers it. There are not many others from what I've seen. Mostly what is offered is very rushed (or neglected) and will never end up very good without years of re-working if ever.

Hi Treeman, i dont know you and please dont take offence but you make some very sweeping statements. This sort of statement covers a lot of ground. I dont know how extensively you have travelled and if your statement covers Australia or just Victoria. If only Victoria then i have never met you. I have travelled most of Australia and checked out Nursery's who do good work and your observation would include them and maybe they are scratching their heads also

Quite possible and as I said ''From what I've seen''. My observation does not include material which I have not seen. But I go by the general standard which I have observed over the years. 90% of the material is not up to par. Perhaps you could show me some examples?

SouthernSky wrote:

a cursory reading of your post archive shows the same hostile attitude time and time again.

Wow who is hostile? Please give examples and I would be glad to re-explain

The goal of Chinese bonsai (penjing - in the West they're the same damned thing)

If you call my pine example ''penjing'' Then let me say penjing has absolutely nothing to do with bonsai. This is a bonsai forum isn't it?

is to find and explore the unique character of a particular tree. I'd rather a tree with artfully highlighted character, even if it breaks your arbitrary rules, than one that's been crafted (butchered) to resemble a Japanese textbook photo. Perhaps this is yet another reason why your more Japanese than the Japanese bonsai community is fading into oblivion..

I have no idea what that means.

OK guys this topic has served it's purpose and is now just turning on itself.