Failed Air-layer on a JBP, cambium re-growth how long?

[siddhar]

I have a failed Air-layer attempt on a JBP and was wondering how long it might take for a new cambium layer to grow and repair the site of the failed layer?

[Bougy Fan]

Why don't you scrape it back and give it another go ? Because you have ringbarked it that section of the trunk will always be thinner and will look like crap

Tony

[siddhar]

Why don't you scrape it back and give it another go ? Because you have ringbarked it that section of the trunk will always be thinner and will look like crap

Tony

Thanks Tony, Ill re-set the air-layer again tomorrow. Any tips on a successful method? I used rooting hormone mixed to a paste consistency, sphagnum moss and then wrapped the graft area in foil. And also how long would you suggest leaving the layer on?

[Bougy Fan]

Hi Sidd
Did it bridge itself or not even callous ? Don't have any experience with pines but I imagine it would take about 4 months ? Perhaps a pine expert will chime in How long had you had the layer on for ? Make sure you cut up a bit higher to get a fresh wound and if it bridged go a bit wider and a little bit deeper. Your method is the same as mine, although I am now not bothering with the hormone on figs only. Make sure the foil and spag moss is high enough as the roots some from the "top" of the layer and roots don't like air or light. Good luck !

Tony

[kcpoole]

I have done a few layers on JBP, but only one younger sections without mature bark. They took about 3 months over winter.

If you are trying to layer a section of mature bark, then it could take up to a year.

Ken

[siddhar]

Thanks Ken and Tony

I have done a few layers on JBP, but only one younger sections without mature bark. They took about 3 months over winter.

If you are trying to layer a section of mature bark, then it could take up to a year.

Now Ken, do you reckon I should re-set the layer now and then just wait until after winter to have a look?

[kcpoole]

Dunno, How big and old is the section?
if Mature bark, I would set now and then check for roots every month, ( you using clear plastic so you should see them), and then a good check during autumn.

Ken

[siddhar]

The section would be 80mm caliper, and it is pretty old bark, the tree was field grown for I dont know how long

[Bougy Fan]

There you go Sidd - Ken's the expert I would definitely be putting it on now to get the most from the growing season. I wouldn't even look at it until next year - I try not to disturb a layer too much as I just use alfoil.

Tony

[alpineart]

Hi Siddhar
If its 80mm in diameter Then i think you shuold be looking at the open pot layering method i used on the "JBP 4 for $40 " topic .It is treated like a normal bonsai watered regularly as the parent tree. I set layers on 30-50-sections ring barked and triple wired , and the callouses grew over most of them , It will take at least 2-3 years to layer an 80mm section because its definately old bark and cambium your working with .The layers in the above topic were severed i think after 12 months and they had calloused but no roots .On young stock it can produce roots as as short as 3 months time .

Now one has since died and they other are being treated as oversize cutting , they are still green and continuing to extend the candles , but that's not to say they will grow roots and survive .Using the spagnum moss and plastic on old stock to me is a waste of time as it will definately dry out at some stage even if only in part whereas a pot if watered will always remain moist .Reset the layer now wont hurt just scratch any callous and clean up the open ring bark the apply 3-4 layers of wire continually around the ring bark 20mm below the callous . Add some hormone powder mixed to a paste is a good thing as it stays in place and wont wash away or dissolve ..The rest is up to mother nature . Good luck with it

Cheers . Alpineart

[siddhar]

G'day Alpine, I really appreciate the in depth advice mate. Now should I use a mix of diatomite for the potting medium or something finer like seed raising mix?

[kcpoole]

I agreed with Alpine if it that Big
Get a largeish pot you can to fit around the tree. Wire it on and fill up with your mix of choice. ( for this I use sifted diatomite and chopped Sphagnum moss for mine).
Make sure it gets watered every day and is not allowed to dry out.

I have a layer similar but smaller on a Radiata at the moment and assume that one will be there most of the growing season.

Post some pics of it as well

ken

[siddhar]

80 mm in circumference, not width

[alpineart]

Hi Siddhar
I use soft red scoria for its moisture retention and sharpness /roughness and spagnum moss finely chopped . The mix is 50/50 by volume not weight , cut the pot around the trunk by slicing the side and cut a firm hole to suit the size of the trunk .I have a Conifer that is being pot layered for almost 4 years and its just began to start to root several months ago , a sneak peak broke 1 root and there is only 3 present in the pot so it will remain in place for the rest of this season making almost 4 1/2 years to layer. Somethings working as the base of the twin trunks above the soil mix is swelling quite extreme compared to the trunks themselves .

Simple pour the blended material into the pot and water as per normal .For an 80mm trunk i would use a 200-250mm pot cut down to around 250mm high and fill to within 50mm of the top .Either drill a hole through the trunk and place a solid stainless steel or alluminium dowel through to support the pot or use wires to hang the pot from the above whorls above .When wet it will weight around 2-3 kgs and make sure its stapped to something to stop the wind from thrashing it around

Drilling a series of holes around the pots may also be beneficial for drainage and air flow .I have done this on 2 large Spruce that have began to callous after being on for 12 months , so its a long process. These Spruce may take 3 years to produce enough roots to remove them from the parent stock .You wont have to check the roots as if and when they are ready to remove they will grow out of the holes , most likely at the lower part of the pot .Removing to check will only damage the new roots so don't be too eager or all your hard work will be undone in a few moments .All the best with it .

Cheers Alpineart

[Jamie]

gday people

after reading this and seeing that you are having some bridging probs there is a few things I have read in regards to layering pine and juni, and some experience in it, one thing that can really help is to have the medium as tight as possible for the layer. this was told to me by Rod up in bundy, also Graham Potter from the UK really compresses the layers so it is quite tight.

my experience with juni wasnt exactly done as an airlayer but what happened did really surprise me. I had a juni that was a typical staked juni with a trunk of around 30mm thick. I wrapped the trunk as tight as possible with bicycle iner tube cut into strips, and I mean tight it was streched as far as possible and wrapped overlapping by half the width of the inner tube. this was left on for over twelve months to get it as long as I could with the heavy wires to keep it to shape. anyways, there wasnt any medium on the inside of the tube as it wasnt ment for layering, but when watering there was always a little moisture that got caught in between the tube that got to the trunk. after I had removed the tubing I was quite shocked to see that there was roots growing from all over the trunk that was wrapped in the tube. now this was without any medium.

after seeing this I decided to try it as a layer (not with inner tube but will explain). using a peat moss and glad wrap I did the ring bark twice the width of the trunk, sliced vertical strips on the part where I wanted the roots to grow and wedged them out to get flare. I mixed up hormone powder to a paste which is a much easier way of using it by the way, it stays on for a long time even with watering. and then packed the area with peat moss, compressing it as tight as I could with glad wrap, then used a black duct tape to really hold it in tightly. cut a couple of holes in the tape and through the glad wrap and put a few straws from macca's in (they are thicker straws which made it easier) so I could get water in there when needed.

well this was left on for around 8 weeks (by the way the tree is an azalea or rhododendron of some form, or at least that general family). after the 8 weeks I removed the layering material and took the new tree off. it is now in a nice little shady spot getting morning sun while the new root system builds itself up. I dont want to disturb it right now and didnt get pics sorry, but as soon as it is ready I will get pics for you of it bare rooted to show what has resulted.

the slicing of the bark vertically and wedging it out has created a very nice flare as the tree calloused because of this and the roots are coming from where I wanted them, so it has nice flare and not bad taper, well will be good taper when I can cut back to a couple of branches I want

the reason I have gone through this is because of the info I had learned through a couple of sources, the result I had with the juni wrapped in tube for bending that grew roots on the inside of it (which really spun me out!) and the recent layer I performed has given me good reason to really pack the medium as tight as possible. and the other key thing to do is to have something that keeps the medium in the dark like it would be in the ground, whether its duct tape or just a black bin bag, as long as its dark its good. some use tin foil as this warms up well and is obviously good to stimulate root growth. I find that its good but black tape or similar does the same job too.

pines can take a long time to layer but it is possible. just being patient and persistent is the way to go about it. and if that still doesnt work, try using a tourniquet with the layering method aswell as this can bring good results too.
I know one of our members Daviet has done a few air layers on JBP with great success, a search should bring it up. and also Dayne has had some really good success with large juniper layers too.

good luck and let us know how it goes