"Working" Bonsai

[Watto]

Today we had the monthly get together of the Goulburn Bonsai Society and it was a lot of fun. There was one topic that was of great interest, and that was the working hard on your bonsai to make them look like mature specimans.
The two trees in the photo are both about 8 years old and were purchased together along with about 18 others, they were match stick thin but were 20 for $20.
Had I known at the time of purchase that these particular seedlings would all have naturally quite small leaves I would have purchased a few more, and of those I did purchase I would have looked after them a bit better.
Anyway the moral of the story is one was placed in the ground for a few years, grown hard, cut back hard, fertilized hard and that I believe has shown the rewards. The other one has always been grown in the pot with minimul attention.
My apologies for the quality of the photo (the lighting wasn't the best) but it does show the differences between working on your trees for a specific outcome, and just letting them drift along.
By the way - the one on the left is the one grown in the ground.

[The Hacker]

Hi Watto

Yes it amazing how quick thing's get big when you put them in the ground & i also figured out that the one in the black pot was the one you growen in the ground , The bigger of the two look's like it's goin to be a very nice tree in not to much with a little work

Regard's The Hacker

[Watto]

Thanks Hacker,
The basis of this discussion is that we should work a bit harder on our trees. Ground growing is not the only way to achieve good results of course, but it is an easy way to increase trunk girth.
In the past 12 months or so I have taken just a few trees and started working on them "fair dinkum" and I can see the results in a relatively short period of time, and it is very pleasing.

[shibui]

Its not just that trees can get bigger when grown well. The photo clearly shows better ramification too. The more the tree grows the more you can trim. The more you trim the more shoots are produced and the better the ramification and that doesn't just apply to field grown trees. It is just the same for trees in pots.
Feed lots, trim often.

[Handy Mick]

Thanks for bringing those two trees today and yes it was a fun day.
Just to let everyone know, the photo of the tree do not do the bigger one any justice, it is quite amazing, Watto has done a great job on it.
I do think we all know that ground grown and high fertilized trees grow fast, there for have a better or a show quality tree in much less time, but why do most not do it?
It is always good to see the difference and to see what we are missing out on.
Thanks for the kick up the back side today Watto.
BTW nice tree.
For those that don't know Watto, he is very informative helpful, and knows his stuff, he also volunteers his time at the national collection.

Mick

[kcpoole]

Top comparo Watto
More than adequately proves the point that you have to put the effort in, and when you do you reap the rewards in multiples

Nice tree too

[Watto]

Very eloquently and correctly put Shibui. It is not just growing in the ground, but using techniques to enhance your own bonsai. Work in - rewards out!
Thanks Mick - I might have to employ you as my marketing manager?

[bodhidharma]

Thats the proof in the pudding Watto. I still get a lot of resistance from people buying trees when i suggest buying a tree in a large growing container and telling them..you can work on it like any other tree and buy the Bonsai pot later. To a lot of people it is not a real tree unless it is in a Bonsai pot. Education is the key and this is what this thread can do..educate. Thanks for posting it and, if we can just get this info out to the masses, that would be

[Olivecrazy]

Hi ive had my olives in the ground for a few years now when i collected them they where put into foam containers. After i found it easier to manage if put into the ground. A lot easier to water as i was busy with other things at the time. But after seeing the growth i get from them i think its best to plant them back in the ground once they have recovered a bit an the front of the tree as been chosen. I think this would cut years off the time needed to train a tree then in the last year or so start cutting the roots on each side before lifting or when planting in the ground place a large concrete paver to stop tap roots from growing. Then use the clip an grow method to train the branches

[Watto]

The larger of the two trees spent about 2 years in a pot, then about 4 years growing in the garden, and now about 2 more years in a pot. This year or next year I will finally get this into a bonsai pot and then really start the ramification.
Whilst it was in the ground, I would grow it without any trimming at all for a whole season, and each winter cut in right down, usually only leaving the one branch, the leader. I did not cut the roots at any stage. The process was simple and appears to have worked.

[shibui]

Just a word of caution amongst the enthusiasm.
Field growing does not always 'work'. Even after years of practice I still have trees that are poor for one reason or another and even some that are so bad they are culled. For newbies, don't just put a few in and expect 100% success with fabulous trunks and great nebari. Allow for some poorer results, even when you do know what you are doing.

Hi ive had my olives in the ground for a few years now when i collected them they where put into foam containers. After i found it easier to manage if put into the ground. A lot easier to water as i was busy with other things at the time. But after seeing the growth i get from them i think its best to plant them back in the ground once they have recovered a bit an the front of the tree as been chosen. I think this would cut years off the time needed to train a tree then in the last year or so start cutting the roots on each side before lifting or when planting in the ground place a large concrete paver to stop tap roots from growing. Then use the clip an grow method to train the branches

Agreed that trees are easier to keep alive and trunks do develop faster but I do not develop branching while the trees are in the ground. Maybe olives are different, Maybe you have different standards for your bonsai but I find that i cannot grow realistic branches and ramification while the trees are in the ground. Growth is too energetic and coarse. Internodes are too far apart for decent branches in a finished bonsai. I rarely keep more than the first internode of branches grown in the field but, as Watto indicates, begin to develop the branching when the tree is in a growing box or pot - much better results.

[Handy Mick]

Watto also mentions he grew his unchecked for the whole season and in winter he cuts back to just the new leader, only inches from the ground, this was for three years.
What he did not mention here but he did at our meeting was that each time his maple grew well over the cloths line. By this you know the tree was left unchecked and fed heavily.
Ground growing is only for trunk progression, not for any branches, remember this.

Mick

[Watto]

Shibui is absolutely correct - not every one is a winner. However it does give you that opportunity to grow a trunk with some grunt. It doesn't matter if you are growing big trees or shohin, trunk size is important, as is trunk movement IMO.
I would keep a very small percentage of all the trees I grow in the ground, but the others go to other people who will hopefully turn them into great bonsai in the years to come.