While looking up training pots and grow boxes I came across a very nice design from Vance Wood.
from Knowledgeofbonsai website wrote:
Finer root development can be obtained by using a pot with screened sides and bottom. These are available made exclusively for this purpose or you could also use pond baskets, which are not as attractive but work in basically the same way and are available at low prices at most pond stores and box stores in the pond department.
I created a mock training pot out of balser wood last night so i could get the angle, depth and width correct.
What I want to know is - are they actually worth making? Has anyone used such a training pot to improve their plants?
Asus101 wrote:You can use them if you cant find colanders or as mentioned pond baskets. I would use hardwood or treated timber as it will take longer to break down.
Ive got a bunch of Merbau and Spotted gum left over from some deck projects which I plan to use. Will be making around 40 of them (of varying sizes)..
I figured these look alot nicer than black plastic containers and pond baskets. And if they have an added bonus than good-o!
I would use hardwood or treated timber as it will take longer to break down.
I wouldn't use treated timber, because I've heard that the preserving agent can kill plants.
Vance Wood came out with this training box quite a long time ago. There was at that stage a lot of discussion on the IBC about the value of 'aerated' training pots, which seemed to boost root growth. As mentioned above, colanders were often used. For my part, I used the bigger plastic storage baskets and lined them with weed mat, that black plastic woven stuff. The results were very good. In the end I went off them because they were so bl...dy ugly.
I would consider going for a flatter design with or without the fly wire. I am sure I remember there is a reason brought up back in those discussions on the IBC about the depth on these but I would rather wider and shallower to improve flare and root base.
I got hold of some of those carry baskets from shops after the one Danica worked at shut down. I have used an idea from Lee Wilson which is using newspaper to line these types of pot. allows drainage but stops the soil falling out.
It's too bad your in such a hurry cause the stories I could tell you, Bushels and baskets of stories, hole crates full of stories. But if you can spare a moment I will tell you one story.
hey guys, I was wondering just how many of you actually use a pot like this or similar and is it actually something that should be done?????? I have quite a large amount of stock trees that I want to start trying to work on the nebari this year and the more and more posts I read here gets quite daunting on just how many different opinions and techniques there are. So is this really something I should do at some stage or is it just something some people do......?????
While looking up training pots and grow boxes I came across a very nice design from Vance Wood.
from Knowledgeofbonsai website wrote:
Finer root development can be obtained by using a pot with screened sides and bottom. These are available made exclusively for this purpose or you could also use pond baskets, which are not as attractive but work in basically the same way and are available at low prices at most pond stores and box stores in the pond department.
I created a mock training pot out of balser wood last night so i could get the angle, depth and width correct.
What I want to know is - are they actually worth making? Has anyone used such a training pot to improve their plants?
I've never used Vance's planters or anything really similar, as it seems that he uses/promotes them largely for Pine species. For what they are, Vance's training pots are indeed a much more attractive way of training roots than the plastic colander alternative. I believe that Vance is an expert joiner.
I would be reluctant to use such a planter in conditions where you may experience days of 46° and 100kmh winds: it's hard enough to keep the water up in these conditions using conventional pots, let alone in a pot where the entire root mass is more-or-less exposed to the elements.
Also, I would be wary of advertising the fact that you intend to copy or mimic Vance's design: if memory serves, he is quite protective of his design (I am not certain whether the patent is pending or standing at this time).
Thanks.
Fly.
Last edited by FlyBri on June 5th, 2009, 7:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
Fly in that case I would look at a white mulch with some capacity to hold water and use that to cover the pot. That way you will get root growth and keep it cooler.
I've never used Vance's planters or anything really similar, as it seems that he uses/promotes them largely for Pine species. For what they are, Vance's training pots are indeed a much more attractive way of training roots than the plastic colander alternative. I believe that Vance is an expert joiner.
I would be reluctant to use such a planter in conditions where you may experience days of 46° and 100kmh winds: it's hard enough to keep the water up in these conditions using conventional pots, let alone in a pot where the entire root mass is more-or-less exposed to the elements.
Also, I would be wary of advertising the fact that you intend to copy or mimic Vance's design: if memory serves, he is quite protective of his design (I am not certain whether the patent is pending or standing at this time).
Thanks.
Fly.
Thanks for the info Fly.. During the hotter months I intend to put them in little wet hessian 'booties' if I find it to hard to keep the soil moist. My small backyard is quite protected from the harsh winds here in Melbourne, I also have a pergola attached to the house that i can put the bonsai under to stop them drying out to much.
Vance can most certainly contact me if he has an issue with it. As i am not planning on selling/profiting from my pots I doubt he has much to worry about.
Last edited by FlyBri on June 5th, 2009, 7:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
I e-mailed Vance about his training pots a little while back. He was fine with me making my own as his pots aren't really available in Aus. He sent photos and rough sizes but not exact plans of course. I found him quite helpful. Vance said never to use treated timber as it's treated with arsenic and can poison your plants. The other thing he said which I found interesting is that you cant over pot your plant with one of his training pots.
Vance Wood wrote:"My Planters that I sell are screen sided with a screen bottom. In this
configuration over potting is not an issue because the soil mass
acts like it would if the tree were in the ground. The actual facts
are a bit more complicated but essentially this is the point."
"Let's start with the treated Pine issue. Treated Pine is soaked
with a compound that may or may not be detrimental to a plants
growth. That is only one issue. Treated Pine is not so good at
holding up to the weather as some think. Given time is will rot
just like untreated Pine. It generally starts to fall apart along
the grains of the wood, especially when used in a setting where it
is constantly exposed to a good deal of moisture. Treated Pine is
not usually made of the best wood to begin with, it relies on its
treatment for its strength. In the long run regular Pine is
probably going to hold up as well as the treated Pine any way. The
only issue is going to be the bottom, which is an issue with all
woods.
I have made custom sized planters for people and particular needs
but generally I use only three sizes; one, three, and five gallon
sizes. As far as the size of the planter is concerned over potting
usually does not create an issue you would encounter with a regular
pot. With a regular pot over watering is the real issue. This does
not happen with the screen planter.
You can develop a good trunk with one of these boxes but it takes a
bit more time than in the ground, the resulting bark is better than
in the ground though. The size of the box is not a big issue
especially if you occasionally want to root prune the tree to
eliminate overly large roots.
Vance Wood."
As for actually building them.......... Well I found that they cost a lot of time and money to build and decided my time and money was better spent on the trees themselves.
Josh.
Last edited by Steven on June 5th, 2009, 11:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
Reason:Fixed Vances' quote
I have not used Vance's pots but have used colanders and similar ventilated containers.
As mentioned they are great for pines and species that like very well drained soils but the price to pay is that they dry out much faster than non-perforated containers.
It would be worth experimenting under your growing conditions to determine exactly how fast the soil will dry.
Jerry http://www.bonsaihunk.us
