So how are everyone's JBP seeds going?

Scott Roxburgh · Post by **Scott Roxburgh** » February 13th, 2013, 8:10 pm

I planted about 1,000 Japanese Black Pine seeds this year. Around 200 of them were treated as seedling cuttings for shohin, and the rest are being grown into larger trees.

Some of the seedling cuttings - a few didn't make it through the cutting process or took a hit from damping off.

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Some of the seedlings growing for larger trees

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How are everyone else's going, what are you doing with yours?

bonsaibeginer · Post by **bonsaibeginer** » February 13th, 2013, 9:15 pm

Nice one Scott.

Those look pretty good to me. How old are they, or when did you plant them out?
Being up here I don't think I stand much chance growing from seed...
Keep us posted
Grant

Isitangus · Post by **Isitangus** » February 14th, 2013, 5:49 am

Wow!!! Looks like there will be a good supply of these for sale in a few years!!!

mtarros · Post by **mtarros** » February 14th, 2013, 6:00 am

They are looking good you should not lose too many more.

I have around 2000 of them growing and most are getting thier needles now.
It's so much fun watching them grow.

I was using chamomile tea to try and stop them damping off.

I did not get around to splitting all of my ones up into lttle pots but will be splitting them up next month as i dont want any to die off from lack of sun.

craigw60 · Post by **craigw60** » February 14th, 2013, 8:40 am

Hi Scott, I potted mine about a month ago. Great seed with very high viability and producing lovely strong plants. I root pruned and planted them in small pots about a month ago individually and a few as clumps with no casualties so far.They are in the poly tunnel which has intense humidity at this time of year.
Craigw

Jow · Post by **Jow** » February 14th, 2013, 9:24 am

I am in a similar boat to Craig. I put in all the seed i had and it seems like i got close to 100% germination! I now have 60 potted pines that are beginning to put on needles. 30 are planted as individuals and 30 pots are groups of 3-7.

Depending on their growth i might wire them this winter.

squizzy · Post by **squizzy** » February 14th, 2013, 11:16 am

I planted these a while back and still havent had time to repot.

pine seedlings.jpg

There is also a couple of half trays around so probably 200 or so sitting in mass planted pots at this stage.

Squizz

Scott Roxburgh · Post by **Scott Roxburgh** » February 14th, 2013, 2:06 pm

It is good to see that everyone else got high germination rates. It should mean that the seeds that weren't planted this year, will have a good chance next year.

Luke308 · Post by **Luke308** » February 14th, 2013, 3:05 pm

Mine are going great!! The 50 or so I treated as cuttings for Shohin didnt make it due to lack of aftercare (12 hour days at work and 45degree weather didnt help). But the ones I cut only the tap root are going strong. I still have around 80-100 more to separate from their communal pots, and 3 lonesome Japanese White Pine seedlings (7 out of 100 sprouted and 3 remain).

I also have last years JBP seedlings which were planted in Jan or Feb 2012 which can be found posted here viewtopic.php?f=104&t=10963&hilit=jbp&start=15 I will have to update photos of them soon.

On a side note, when is the ideal time to repot and root prune JBP? when I say root prune I dont mean the usual root pruning for established trees I mean either trim the tap root or treat as a cutitng.

Cheers,

Luke

Jow · Post by **Jow** » February 14th, 2013, 5:41 pm

A few good sized ones amongst them.

fiveoffive · Post by **fiveoffive** » February 14th, 2013, 7:46 pm

About 80% for me and due to me been sick a few days and two weeks of 40c + i only got 9 left

i'll get some more this year and try bigger pots and more care.

Gareth · Post by **Gareth** » February 14th, 2013, 8:50 pm

Questions guys, I have heard Scott and a few others say they take a cutting from the seedling for shohin plants.

Can someone explain why you do this? When you have just germinated a seed I would think taking a cutting would be redundant, or has this something to do with creating a root spread faster by removing the tap root and because its a shorter tree I. The end makes developing the nebari and root reduction in general easier?

Dario · Post by **Dario** » February 15th, 2013, 12:12 am

Hi Gareth my understanding of the procedure is that it is about establishing a good radial root spread from the start and about bringing the roots closer to the leaves.
This isn't limited to future shohin stock as it enables very low sacrifice branches if growing stock on.
Wasn't sure if you were entirely farmiliar with the technique Gareth so I included the link...
http://bonsaitonight.com/2011/07/01/how ... lack-pine/
Shibui and others have stated that after trialing this method they tend to just cut the tap root and do a light trim instead and find the results to be similar.
http://shibuibonsai.com.au/seedlings/

A couple of years ago I purchased a few jbp starters that had been treated as cuttings and I repotted them in early sping. Their root spread was amazing

Scott I had 100% germination and mine are doing well...thanks again

Out of the 25 I got I trimmed the tap root on about half of them and potted them up individually. I cut the tips/top off all 25 of them a couple of weeks ago and new buds are starting to grow.
I was going to treat the other half as cuttings but I missed the ideal time to do so (as the stem changes colour etc) as I was pretty busy...they are still palnted in the same pot where they sprouted.
Do you think it is too late to still try the cutting technique?...it should have been done a couple of months ago and now the stems, although obviously still young, are no longer purple and have hardened up a bit.
I wanted to compare both methods for myself side by side.
Cheers, Dario.

shibui · Post by **shibui** » February 15th, 2013, 8:48 pm

Hi everyone,
I think I probably got a bit over 100% germination (well maybe just on 100%). The seeds appear to be very viable and, as Scott said, should still germinate for quite a few years if anyone has kept any. (some seed I collected off stock trees was still germinating well after 6 years)
I have pricked out twice so far and still quite a few left in the seed pot that will probably get potted up next spring if there is room to put the pots.

I have also pruned most of the seedlings to stimulate low buds. If left to grow freely they usually just grow long and skinny without low buds to prune back to.

After pruning I had lots of 2-4 cm tips as waste. Suddenly realised thesepruned tips of seedlings are the ultimate in juvenile growth and should make great pine cuttings so dipped the bases in hormone and under mist.
Last time I checked they had started to produce roots (

more black pines) so rather than cut stems at the purple and throw roots away why not try getting 2 from 1? The tip cuttings should produce ideal radial roots like the seedling cutting method but you will also have the base plant still growing. With judicious root pruning it will most likely also produce a good root system and a second great tree from 1 seed.

kanesham · Post by **kanesham** » February 16th, 2013, 12:12 pm

hi guys,

I just got back into bonsai this year after living overseas for the last few years. Thought Id have a go at growing some JBP from seed this year so here is a couple of pictures of my efforts. I planted twenty in mid september, had about 15 germinate , 3 or so dampened off and died. I treated the survivors to a dose of the cutting technique and planted them into a sand plug in a mix of diatomite and zeolite. 3 got attacked by rogue magpies, dug up and fried in the hot sun and 1 week seedling that I probably shouldnt have treated as a cutting died. So I have 8 survivors with all but two racing along, with lots of buds developing down low and roots growing out the bottom of their pots.

AusBonsai