Eucalypts -> How to pot them on so they don't die

[Naym]

I am determined to have a red gum bonsai, however my success with Eucalypts in general so far has been limited by the fact that when I pot them up they get very sick and die. Clearly I am doing something wrong as I see some photos of eucalypts in bonsai pots on other parts of AB.C.

So has anyone discovered that there are tricks to keeping eucalypts alive when potting them up? What soil mix works best? I've tried my 1:1 organic:inorganic mixes that seem to work well with other evergreens, including acacias. Has anyone found some species of eucalypt to be less touch than others?

[bonscythe]

I don't know if this is much help to you but I have heard about the supposed sensitivity gums have with root pruning/shock/etc. While I cannot vouch for this observation I have tried to eliminate the possibility of shock by starting them from seed in bonsai pots (in a packaged 'australian native plant' soil-mix), with the hope of not having to fiddle with the roots until the plant is developed a bit.
I really hope it works because I am keen on getting a bunch of euc bonsai's to show some pride in the Australian bush-environment, I've seen so many growing root over rock and wedged in cliff-faces that I just want one to work, warranting me spending this time, money and effort!
Good luck, hope I didn't ramble too much..

[Hekate]

I have a recovering red gum which I repotted last weekend (out of a bonsai pot, into a regular pot). I've had it for 8 years (originally as part of a twin planting). I think it's 'died' every summer I've had it, and came back again in March this year. My perseverance watering a 'dead' plant has paid off though. It's not much to look at now, as the main trunk is bare, but there are three long shoots coming out near the base of the trunk on one side. There were few roots to speak of, and I only trimmed one very long thick one. I've repotted it with a good layer of pebbles in the bottom, in some bonsai mix we had, plus a smattering of pebbles/gravel, and a slow release organic fertiliser.
It's quick to droop whenever it's unhappy, so the fact that almost a week later it's still looking ok is reason for optimism.

[teejay]

Hi Hekate,

Repotting a gum at this time of year is pretty much a definate no no, and it 'dies' during summer because that is it's main dormant period and is therefore the time when you should be repotting. It sounds strange but the hottest days are the best days to be messing with the roots of Eucs.

You should get Dorothy and Vita Koreshoff's 'Bonsai with Australian Native Plants'. It's a very helpful tome for bonsai with Oz natives.

[Macros]

Hey Guys,
You should try Flybri, he has a fair knowlage with gums?


Thanks,
Mac

[teejay]

Oh yeah, and Fly posted a 'repotting eucs' topic on BonsaiTALK also which you could look at. And by 'red gum' do you mean Euc Camuldensius? I think they're his fav.

It's not much to look at now, as the main trunk is bare, but there are three long shoots coming out near the base of the trunk on one side.

Also, I believe that large shoots emanating from the base, or lignotuber, are problematic as they can kill the rest of the tree.

[Bain]

Also, I believe that large shoots emanating from the base, or lignotuber, are problematic as they can kill the rest of the tree.

The rest of the tree is already dead

If these shoots continue to grow, it should be pretty nice in a few years time.

[Steven]

From my experience with Eucalypts, they do not die when they are repotted.

Examples;
I have successfully bare rooted and trimmed 80% of the roots off an E. scoparia. This was done late summer.
I have successfully potted up and trimmed 50 to 60% of the roots from 2 year old E. nicholii. This was done in the heat of mid summer.
I have successfully collected several E. albens. These have been done in Winter and Spring.

The common factor in all the above has been careful after care which is critical. You must avoid the temptation to put your freshly potted Euc on your bench in the sun.
For at least 2 weeks after repotting, my Euc's are kept in a light spot without any direct sunlight or wind. They are kept moist but not wet and not allowed to dry out. The couple that I have lost unfortunately dried out due to some unexpected wind.
I have used SuperThrive on some, Seasol on a few and no additives on others but have not noticed any differences between these trials.

In Bonsai with Australian Native Plants, Dorothy Koreshoff recommends complete defoliation when repotting Euc's. Either by trimming all the leaves or singeing over a fire . I have tried both these methods and 50% partial defoliation but I have not noticed any difference.

When I was chatting to Ray Nesci about his Tristania laurina (Water Gum) he advised me that he only ever repotted Eucalypts when it suited him. He usually tried to do it in late Summer or Spring but never worried about the timing too much.

I hope this info helps and encourages people to work with Eucalyptus species.

Regards,
Steven

[Naym]

Thanks for the tips guys. There are a couple of things in there I've haven't tried yet. I'll keep persisting.

[FlyBri]

From my experience with Eucalypts, they do not die when they are repotted...

The common factor in all the above has been careful after care which is critical. You must avoid the temptation to put your freshly potted Euc on your bench in the sun.

For at least 2 weeks after repotting, my Euc's are kept in a light spot without any direct sunlight or wind. They are kept moist but not wet and not allowed to dry out... In Bonsai with Australian Native Plants, Dorothy Koreshoff recommends complete defoliation when repotting Euc's. Either by trimming all the leaves or singeing over a fire . I have tried both these methods and 50% partial defoliation but I have not noticed any difference.

When I was chatting to Ray Nesci about his Tristania laurina (Water Gum) he advised me that he only ever repotted Eucalypts when it suited him. He usually tried to do it in late Summer or Spring but never worried about the timing too much.

Gday Naym & Co!

My experiences are very similar to Steven's (and Mr Nesci's: I very nearly posted to this thread stating that the best time to repot Eucs is when they need it... ). Taking the Koreshoffs' substantial advice about Euc care as a starting point, I have found that there can be significant variations in the timing and/or conditions when it comes to repotting Eucs. As with Steven, I have done substantial root work on 40°days (always making sure that there was a bucket of water at hand), I have collected a mature Euc trunk with no roots in mid-Winter, and have most recently performed a massive root reduction in late Summer.

I have come to believe (as Steven states) that one of the major factors affecting the success or otherwise of repotting Eucs and associated species is after care, and this includes careful consideration of the growing medium in which a tree is repotted. This thesis is supported by an article which was originally posted in Bonsai Australis magazine in 1993 by Dorothy Koreshoff. She states:

...horticulture becomes simplified, basically, if one ensures that:

(a) air is able to reach the roots at night; and

(b) there is free, not locked water (some water is held too tightly by fine particles to be of use) which is able to be absorbed by the roots during the day...

... Poorly draining mixes impair the passage of water, thus excluding air sufficiently which may be the means of smothering the plant...

... My conclusion is that the rate of survival is governed by the amount of air the tree's roots system gets.

Following information in Mrs Koreshoff's article, I have been recently using a free-draining soil mix for my trees (including Eucs) with apparent success. I have dropped the Dynamic Lifter component lately, fearing that once it breaks down it turns to mud. In its stead, I am using Osmocote and liquid fertilizer.

Anyway, sorry I can't be more specific at this time, but there is still much for me to learn.

Good luck!

Fly.

[Bretts]

It is interesting that you have taken the dynamic lifter out of your mix Fly. I just started adding some to my latest mixes from your advice.
I just purchased a trailer load of half cow compost and half fine bark mulch to use for my bulk potting use this season. As the bark has not broken down much yet I added the dynamic lifter to try and offset any nitrogen that the bark will consume as it starts to break down in addition to the cow compost.
I had given thought to the dynamic lifter pellets breaking down(as well as the cow compost) but my thoughts are if you get off to a good start the roots will colonate the pot and keep structure to the mix eliminating the mix turning to mud.
From your post it seems the fear of the dynamic lifter pellets turning into mud and clogging soil is still only a fear and has not happened yet. With the mix you have suggested I get the feeling that it would be open enough to wash out any such issue? Could you elaborate on how long your trees have been in your original free draining mix and how they are going at the moment.
I somehow got re-interested in Al Kepplers Humic Acid studies a while back and after waiting for BT to come back on line so I could re- read his article about it I am very happy that he has again posted some of his findings at Forums such as Bonsai Vault.
http://bonsaivaultforum.freeforums.org/ ... -t435.html
From this recent learning I would think your mix containing the dynamic lifter would be better as it would have some humic content. Osmocote is a good addition but I believe it lacks that organic component that it now seems we should not leave out.

[Joel]

Brett,

There is a product called "Seamungus" that consists of decayed seaweed and manure. It also has added humic acid, but im not sure how much. Unfortunately, it is fairly expensive. Does anybody know where you can purchase humic acid around Sydney?

Jayc

[FlyBri]

I had given thought to the dynamic lifter pellets breaking down(as well as the cow compost) but my thoughts are if you get off to a good start the roots will colonate the pot and keep structure to the mix eliminating the mix turning to mud.
From your post it seems the fear of the dynamic lifter pellets turning into mud and clogging soil is still only a fear and has not happened yet. With the mix you have suggested I get the feeling that it would be open enough to wash out any such issue? Could you elaborate on how long your trees have been in your original free draining mix and how they are going at the moment.

Gday Brettles!

Good points you make there, and you are right that it is only a fear which has not become a reality. The DL in my original mix only comprised about 1/15th (6.67%) of the total volume, whereas the fines in unsifted potting mix (and even some commercial Bonsai soils) can represent between 1/4 (25%) and 1/3 (33.33%) of the total volume. Assuming that the sphagnum does nothing to impede drainage, the addition of DL should not be an issue (unless you care about the pH issues which have been discussed here in the past).

As it stands, I cannot remember which trees are potted with DL and which without. All appear more-or-less as healthy as each other, so it is entirely possible my concerns were misplaced. (It may also be that I ran out of Dynamic Lifter at some point, and have retrospectively justified its exclusion from further mixes... )

Thanks, and let us know how your bulk mix goes.

Fly.

[Bretts]

See Here Jay
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1450

Thanks for the comprehensive added info Fly and the self analyzation I will keep you posted as you asked as well.