Longevity of Aussie natives - how old are yours??

[dansai]

I was just told by someone that Aussie natives don't last as long as the traditional bonsai species. I realise that some of the classic bonsai are over 300 years old, some much older, and that bonsai with Aussie natives has not got a long history, yet I feel that if the same care and attention is given to our natives, especially root pruning to ensure new feeder roots are present then it seems that there should be no reason that our natives can't live for decades if not centuries.

Does anyone out there feel the same?

Does anyone have a very old Aussie native bonsai that is still very vigorous and healthy?

How old is the oldest Aussie native that you are aware of?

[GavinG]

Ted Poynton's majestic Angophora at the NBPCA is from the 1960s, from memory, and powering on well. Ian Edwards' Banksia is also there, and from somewhere around 1970. Both very fine. I think some of the Koreshoff figs also go back that far.

The point is, very few natives were grown as bonsai before then. We're still finding out - no-one actually knows. The Acacia story will be interesting, as they are famously short-lived in the wild. I'm not sure I've seen old Grevilleas out there. Casuarinas, Eucalypts, Banksias, Leptos and the like can live to a venerable age - there certainly should not be a problem with them. Mels and Callistemons? Who knows?

Gavin

[Ash]

Hi Dansai,

I think lumping the longevity of all Aussie natives together is a bit unrealistic. Some species are naturally short lived - a pioneer wattle may live half a decade. Some species are long lived - an alpine conifer from Tasmania may live several millenia. The same is true for bonsai. I know of, own and have seen many other figs cultivated since the 1950's and they are still growing strong. I have Melaleuca, Leptospermum and Lysiphyllum that were field collected in the 1970's and they are still growing strong. If you choose your species well your Aussie native bonsai could easily outlive you!

cheers

Ashley

[dansai]

Wasn't meaning to lump all natives together. The acacia question is interesting as I have heard that what in the wild are often pioneering species can live much longer as bonsai.

I myself have sat underneath an angophora that was over 400 years old and showing signs of senescesance that was then cut down for roads of progress. I was awed of something that was here before us white fellas. I've also seen trees potentially much older.

For me I have given my 2 eldest children one small and one large bonsai, and my other kids a small bonsai each. One of which is my avatar, which needs updating. I hope that some of these may be passed on to my grandchildren as has been a traditional practice elsewhere in the world. I would love to think that some of my trees will long outlive me. I also hope that Australian Bonsai continues to develop so that any trees we do develop and valued and revered so that they continue to develop for many generations to come

[craigw60]

I have an acacia cognata which once belonged to Ian Edwards it would have been started in the mid 80s so it would be around 35 years old and doing fine Acacia have amazing fibrous root systems so could live for a long time if correctly root pruned.
I also have a group of nothofagus which were collected in I guess the late 60s, they have been in my care since the early 80s and will I suspect live to a great age.
I am not sure how long you need to own a tree before it becomes your own perhaps Gavin could tell us.
Craigw

[Mojo Moyogi]

I have an acacia cognata which once belonged to Ian Edwards it would have been started in the mid 80s so it would be around 35 years old and doing fine Acacia have amazing fibrous root systems so could live for a long time if correctly root pruned.
I also have a group of nothofagus which were collected in I guess the late 60s, they have been in my care since the early 80s and will I suspect live to a great age.
I am not sure how long you need to own a tree before it becomes your own perhaps Gavin could tell us.
Craigw

Cheers,
Mojo

[Damian Bee]

I have some Syzigium that have been with me since the start of my serious plant addiction.
They have to be some of my favourite trees as they have come close to death on more than one occasion but they bounce back with great results.
I have seen a lot of excellent native Bonsai on show in Australia, without knowing I would point at the 40-50 year old mark.
I also saw some great old Nothofagus recently in the Otways (Southern Victoria), they just seem to keep on growing despite having gaping holes in their huge trunks

[dansai]

So it would seem the comment made to me that Aussie native bonsai don't live long is uniformed idea that would be best be rejected. I was shown a book of classic Japanese bonsai shortly afterwards, quite a few of which were 300 or more years old. One even stated as being 800. All were either pines or junipers. Pity we don't have a device to look into the future and see if such a book is produced full of Aussie natives.

[thoglette]

So it would seem the comment made to me that Aussie native bonsai don't live long is uniformed idea that would be best be rejected.

Too right!

It will be many hundreds of years before we can even begin to comment. Especially when we have a whole series of eucalypts which typically last 400+ years

There was a habit of copicing gums for their oil - if any of these plantations exist they may provide some pointers. Experience in europe suggests that copicing extends the life of trees in the same way that bonsai can.

[izzykay]

Google Tingle trees or Eucalyptus jacksonii. They live up to 400+. you could park a car in the hollow of this one, its amazing to see in person.

3409358947_708cfcbd6b_z.jpg

stolen photo

[Bretts]

That is a very interesting question Dansai,
Although we would need to time travel ahead to get a definitive answer as with any science we can look at what is expected and make some hypothesise.
There are trees that live a Loooooooong time and there are trees that live a short time. The basics is that slow growing trees live a Long time and fast growing trees live a short time. It is undecided in the scientific world if a tree will die from cell degradation as we do or, at least soem of the most long lived, are able to keep the cells a perfect copy and it is only things such as size (getting bigger than it's workings can handle and it succumbs to some disease or pest) that will cause the death of a tree.
The fact remains that when a tree is kept small it will last alot longer than it would in the wild.
Whether the bonsai can live FOREVER is still unsure but theoretically it seems it is possible.
Taking all this into account our natives are not the longest living trees in the wild but as bonsai the rules change and no one has a definitive answer yet and it is even possible that they could live forever.

[GavinG]

Craig, I meant no disrespect. I referred to your Banksia as "Ian Edwards' Banksia" because it was the first name on the label, to distinguish it from the other two Banksias on display.

Ash, some growers report problems digging Leptospermum from the wild - would you mind giving details of how you did it? And where they were growing, aftercare, and all that stuff. Many thanks,

Gavin

[thoglette]

Ash, some growers report problems digging Leptospermum from the wild - would you mind giving details of how you did it? And where they were growing, aftercare, and all that stuff. Many thanks,

Leptospermum (esp. Scopariam) are, in my experience and as reported, notoriously fussy about people touchting their roots

Pup and others reported much success with L. laevigatum

[Ash]

Ash, some growers report problems digging Leptospermum from the wild - would you mind giving details of how you did it? And where they were growing, aftercare, and all that stuff. Many thanks
Gavin

Hi Gavin,

I am not 100% sure why my Leptosperum have survived well if others have had problems. Perhaps it is the different tropical species I have used? i.e. not L. scoparium which is reported to be difficult.
When lifting them I collected a good pad of roots, I also chose to dig plants that I expected could be dug successfully. One was in a well watered garden and had roots close to trunk, another in a damp soil pocket over a shallow rock bed where a house was being built, also roots close to the trunk. I don't think it would work with a plant you had to chop down or chop up. Some of the ones on the rock had roots that just disappeared into cracks and I wouldn't even bother trying. I never bare root them or rake the roots out, but I do gradually and systematically replace all the roots by removing sections sequentially at each repotting. Aftercare involves careful watering (never dry but not saturated all the time). Leptospermum don't like being shaded so be carefull of that in the aftercare phase.

cheers

Ash

[Jan]

The Leptospermum obovatum that I've collected and am growing HATE to be too dry. Their natural habitat is on sandy riverbanks and/or river gravel beds. They also dislike being too wet and need a very free draining soil. I manage soil moisture by putting a wick of venetian cord up through the drainage hole, well up into the soil on one end and the other in the moisture in the damp sand tray in which the plants are sitting. Works for me (and them) even in our hot, dry and windy days. I've killed a few learning but things are stable now,

Jan