Autumn needle work to promote back budding on seedlings?

[kanesham]

I did post is on the autumn needle thread but I have had no response and as it was an old thread I thought I would start a new one. As per the autumn needle pulling technique . I am wondering if this can be applied to seedlings? I'm growing some to become mame sized trees. All of my seedlings(8) ( planted in september) were treated to the cutting method and have now grown to be an average of between 100 to 200mm in height. The majority of them have buds low on their trunks and multiple candles growning from them but I was wondering if I can encourage more buds down low by needle pulling? As I figure the more low buds the better , allowing me to grow sacrificial branches to thinking them up and create some good taper? Any advice would be appreciated.

[Scott Roxburgh]

Hi Kane,

I haven't used this on one year old seedlings before. I think that you may have issues as if you remove last years needles you won't have any left?

I'd fertilise this autumn and grow them on strongly next year.

[Paulneill]

There are many different different techniques for jbp, It can become very confusing . Given good growing conditions they will backbud (more ) without any cutting or plucking. Give them an open mix, full sun,plenty of water and fertiliser they will thrive and backbud it helps to start with good material with low branches . Just clean out old dead needles and spider weds to keep ventilation . Look up (Ryan Neill on pines)
On you tube, it is a very good video . Also get the book on black pines by leong from bonsai south.
Read the bonsai south book and you will be able to grow healthy jbp and incorporate Ryan neills tecniques for developing short needles and internodes and ramification will be doing ok.

[kanesham]

thanks guys. I have seen the Ryan Neil video and yes indeed it was educational.

Does the book from leong follow the same techniques as the Boon series of DVDs?

I dont have a benchmark to follow for how well my seedlings ( or cuttings?) are growing as this my first attempt, but from what I gather they are doing pretty well, lots of sun, water and fertilizer in a free draining mix seems to be the basic recipe for healthy trees.

Scott, I understand what you are saying but to help explain were my trees are at I have attach a couple of photos, sorry for the quality but I have them altogether in a foam box and they have rooted out into it so I didn't want to disrupt the roots by pulling them out to photograph. You can see in the pictures that they have there first, or their spring needles closest to the soil level ( 20-30mm up the trunk). This is how much they had grown before I cut there roots off and transplanted them as cuttings. Their growth then slowed ( obviously, they cut had the legs cut off) but slowly picked up ,and then took off.

Following the autumn needle work post you made can I remove the lowest needles ( spring growth) to promote the back buding i want to get some low scarificial branches in place. This would still leave 100mm or so of summer needles and candles on the trees and would obviously not leave them as bare twigs?

One last question, the first picture, the could/should I cut back two of the three candles to help force the energy back down the tree, again hopefully creating lower buds? Or do you think it is best to let it grow free for now?

I know that the best way to learn it to just do it but I am trying to get as much knowledge as I can so I dont make a silly error.

[shibui]

With pines this young you can cut anywhere and new buds will form in the axil of any needles below the cut. I usually take out the tips of seedlings when they are about 5cm tall so they will grow some low shoots. Most of yours already have plenty of shoots so i think you can just let them grow to promote some thickness.
Take off candles next summer to get more buds.

Leave the 3 shoots for the time being. the stronger one will thicken the trunk and can be removed as it grows in spring/summer.

[Paulneill]

I bought a jbp starter about 2 years ago similar to the ones you have shown . I put it 100% diatomite and fed heavily it is now about a foot tall with an abundance of branches and dormant buds that all developed since I got it . I have only ever pruned the top / apex candles once to redirect energy . Backbuds are more likely to develop we're there are needles and less likely on bare wood with no needles . I wouldn't be removing any growth . Sun light can stimulate buds to develop try tilting your trees so light can hit the the trunk and rotate every so often . You could also wire those trees and put some low bends into them.

[kanesham]

Thanks for the response guys. I will leave them be and keep doing what I have been doing then.