Peter Adams Workshop Trees

[Bretts]

These are the two trees I am taking for Peter to choose from for the workshop. I thought members might like to have a go at guessing wich one he will recomend we work on and also give ideas of what he might suggest to see how close it is to what he does?

The first is a Seiju Elm that I purchased from Bonsai South 2 growing seasons ago. I think it was well grown stock with minimal work and time needed to get it's basic shape.

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[Bretts]

Next is a hornbeam that I purchased from Ray not long after the seiju. A recent correction of the new leader is prommising but what do you think?

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I will post after workshop pictures in about 1 week

[Asus101]

Personally I would take a tree that is ready to begin styling, not one half styled or that needs extensive growth. Something that is a challenge, something different.
I would look at taking pure raw stock that is ready for styling.

[Bretts]

Decision has been made Asus that was an old post Your answer in that thread was take the best you have well this is about it. Albeit that I don't agree anyway. Are you going to have a go at guessing what Peter will suggest with either of these trees which is what the thread is for?

[kcpoole]

I have 2 trees I am taking tomorrow for my workshop. ( I do not have recent photos of either but will get some tomorrow and post)

1 is a very raw collected Murraya I dug in August 2007
The other is a collected Azalea that I have cleaned up somewhat.

My thoughts are that We can decide on the day which one Peter would like to attack,
Whatever you decide, you should take the best you have to get the best value from the day.
If that is a semi styled tree then that is OK because you may get some great ides re a restyle, or just affirmation that one has done the best possible with the stock.
Either way you should end up with a great drawing of your tree to work to in the future, and a valuable experience on the way.

Ken

[anttal63]

hey brett i did post earlier but it must of got lost as geoff was doing maintenance, i got shut out and the post is gone. anyways i would love to see some shots of corner angles of the first tree. then i will have a go at guessing. no stress if thats to hard. i think peter is gonna make a rippa of that in the future!

[Bretts]

Asus I will elaborate on my earlier post because that is what we are here for.
Although I enter this workshop with as open a mind as I can muster What I hope most to learn of Peter is branch movement and refinement on deciduous trees because I believe he is one of the most gifted in that regard at the moment. Also because I believe that is what I now need to work on with my learning's. I have been a little disappointed that I have found so many faults in my progress so far with these trees that I almost expect that Peter will recommend to cut back to where I was when I first started with this raw stock. I would rather be heading to the workshop with material that was further ahead than these trees. I fear that Peter will tell me to chop here here and here as you do with Deciduous raw stock and a little wiring re pot and all will be done. Deciduous is not like Conifer the first styling can be a trunk chop remove most branches, show the misses how ugly that expensive tree has become and then wait another year. Your description of stock I should take sounds alot like instant conifer bonsai which is not what I want from this workshop. I am now very happy to be heading with these two trees which ever way it goes as they will both both be keepers and as KC stated I also have the added bonus of getting previous work evaluated. I have scoured the nurseries a few months ago looking for material that suits the purposes I have stated above but have not been lucky enough to find one I like. I plan on giving two nurseries another look over on Friday in case something pops up and then have Ray's nursery to choose from when I get there. But through various discussions that you had the chance to put more input into than your usual one liners I am confident that this stock will do the job well enough.

Thanks for your interest Antonio. I will try to get those angles up for you before I go it might not be until Thursday though. Scott(Orange Bonsai Club) has set up a meeting with the Cowra Japanese gardens tomorrow for an upcoming project. It's raining Bonsai

[Bretts]

I am looking forward to seeing your trees KC.

[kcpoole]

I am looking forward to seeing your trees KC.

I will have heaps of Photos Tomorrow ( Wednesday) no doubt

[anttal63]

well said bretts; it is great that you are re evaluating your work. worst case scenario (chop this chop that) you know you will have a strong and posative direction for the future. if my hunch is right, i think you will be nicely surprised. you only have to look at his trees. in the end he can only give you what you put in. for some of us something is better than nothing.

[Bretts]

Here are the 45s

seiju bonsai 001.jpg

seiju bonsai 002.jpg

seiju bonsai 003.jpg

seiju bonsai 004.jpg

I think I made a mistake on this branch on the initail chop and wire, but it will not take long to regrow no mattere how far we go back.

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[anttal63]

as i thought! that last one is the front but obviously needs some correctional work. all these 45"s get you away from that prominent zig zag. i know what you mean about that branch, i have made the same mistake more than once. the wheels are already in motion. just through this process of going to see peter adams the coins are dropping hard and fast. this is a great thing pal. i will give it a rip at a virt tonight, for now i must do some paying work for the week.

[anttal63]

here ya go pal , sorry its quick cheap and nasty but ya get the idea.

[aaron_tas]

well if this was my tree, and without actually touching the tree and seeing it in person...

there is something in this tree that bothers me just a little.
it's the heavy mass of heartwood at the fork of the first branch that i think is the problem, my eyes noticed it before i did

also i think that the foliage area may be a little 1/2 1/2 with the trunk area, it may be a personal thing but i dont like that.

blue area is the fat area of the trunk that could be carvedinto a v and then forced down a bit.

the red arrows are the moving of the branches

brett's ulmus1.jpg

brett's ulmus2.jpg

brett's ulmus2in pot.jpg

[Bretts]

I think it will come around a bit as you'se both seem to think but maybe not so far. Which you can do little about from the static pics
I also agree with the branches coming down Aaron. This is one of the insights that I am hoping to learn from the workshop. A natural deciduous tree usually has upward movement to start with and then droops down with the wieght of the branch. Yet I think in informal upright this is much harder to represent so I have been stuck in a conundrum about that. A broom is much easier to make believable with upward moving branches that then turn down. I think that the informal upright form is a little unnatural to start with. It is very hard to find a picture of a deciduous tree that follows the informal upright form which is not to say it does not exist I think it is just not as common in the natural world as it is in the bonsai world .
Looking through Peters maple book most of the heavy set informal uprights have branches that start horizontally or even slightly down and other lighter or broom like forms start as an upward growing branch. Walter often has the same but getting the chance to look at more of his trees he does seem to find ways to get that upward growth to suit the informal form some times.

I think this one will need horizontal branches very close to what you have shown Aaron. The area you have circled is an issue but only a slight one. The bark on this tree is so coarse that just by removing some bark this area can be improved more than I have already, also a little carving of the scar tissue there from an earlier trunk chop will be no problem. Management of the coarse bark will be a a integral part of development I think. It lost alot of the bark over the last two years as you may see in the pictures. This may be a transitional thing or it may be an issue of the old roots after removing from the field being replaced by the ones you can see on the surface. The bark is so porous that it has been impossible to stop being damp This is the reason I was keen on getting rid of the mossy lichen that was growing over the bark as it did not seem to help. The tree has never showed ill health and the bark is returning so I will continue to mange the issue and see what becomes.