Advice about big scar on Pyracantha

[Ces]

Hello guys,

I bought this tree from one of our ausbonsai members and their mates a few weeks ago (thanks Chris and Noel) and have done nothing with it but look and think about where to take it since acquiring it.

front 2 9 may 2013.jpg

I've got a few ideas but at the moment there is one large scar at the back that I am having trouble deciding how to tackle it.

back 9 may 2013.jpg

There is good evidence of healing, so I could carve it out a little, reseal the cut and hope for roll over...

cut healing 9 may 2013.jpg

But apart from probably taking upwards of 15 years to accomplish there is another obstacle to this option. The cut site bulges out from the trunk on the left and right sides which would require the removal of quite a bit of material to achieve a natural look and hence more healing time for the bark to roll over (if ever).

cut bulge 9 may 2013.jpg

cut bulge 2 9 may 2013.jpg

Alternatively, a major carving out or shari or hollow and make the problem side the front. Which will bring the apex leaning much more toward the viewer. I will be carving out elements of the current front anyway, so the tree is destined for the die grinder either way.

I am a bit lost to other options and would really like your help guys.

What would you do?

Cheers,

Ces.

[Guy]

any chance of a radical change in the planting angle?--either to hide or feature the area

[Bougy Fan]

It is a bit hard to see - but I would carve the scar into a shari and have that as the front. Usually the tree will bow towards the viewer so that would work as well then ? You will probably have to extend it around the sides to bring down the thickened part if the trunk has swollen. Or turn the tree slightly and have the shari extend around one side only.

Do you know what colour berries it gets ?

[Andrew Legg]

Ces, if it's too big to hid, you have only one option - make a feature of it! Just how you do that is another question all together. The wound looks VERY round, so I think you're gonna have to carve a bit more out than just the scar. Food for thought!

Nice stump though!

[bodhidharma]

A good stump for sure. No choice really, hollow it out below the cambium line and wait for it to heal over, which it will. We always reach for the carving tools because we are impatient in this fast world.You can still develop the tree while it heals and in 10 or so years it will be a stunner. I have a corky bark elm with the same problem and i am just going to wait and keep developing it.

[Ces]

Thank you Bougy, Andrew and Bodhi... I really appreciate the advice.

You guys aren't making it any easier for me though... 2 one way, one the other and I respect all of your opinions very highly so...... what to do? I'm hoping to make it to the Illawarra show this weekend so if I do I'll take the tree along to that and see if I can get some advice on it (especially from those who cultivated it).

Maybe I might get some more photos tomorrow showing the planting angles (i.e. four sides) and see what you reckon then.

Bougy, I haven't seen it's flowers or berries at all but I believe it to be var. 'ruby mound', which has red berries I think.

Cheers guys,

Ces.

p.s. leaning towards the carve at this point (sorry Bodhi)

[Neli]

LOOK at Graham'potter's videos. There is an example of curving exactly like yours.

[Viky Petermann]

Hi Ces,
I have been looking at the photos of your Pyracantha.
In my opinion, the only good thing about your first choice of front seems to be that it hides the large scar.
The side with the scars seems to have a lovely wide base and great taper.
My suggestion for your tree would be to rotate it slightly to the left so that the scar is not straight on in the center and that you tackle it to make it the central feature of the tree expanding it to incorporate the smaller scar higher in the trunk. The type of deadwood I imagine is that which happens slowly as wood rots in the darker parts of a dark forest. You could create great depth and feeling if the carving is sensitively done specially when the callous forms on the edges of the carving.
I can't wait to see where you take this tree!!
Viky

[Ces]

any chance of a radical change in the planting angle?--either to hide or feature the area

Hey Guy,
Sorry I missed this comment earlier. Possibly. The tree has only been out of the ground for less than a year I think, so I'll be leaving it alone in terms of repotting for awhile. In terms of tilting the angle I think I'm happy with the back being the front now and it has a good angle of inclination for my plan.

Here are some more angles...

right side 10 may 2013.jpg

left side 10 may 2013.jpg

something like this Viky?

back turned left a little 10 may 2013.jpg

or maybe this?

back turned right a little 10 may 2013.jpg

Do you think you could post an example of the type of rotted tree you are talking about? I would really appreciate a representation.

I've come up with my version of a virt... Apologies for my lack of artistic skill. I've left the foliage pads in pencil so I can play around pad placement on the same trunk configuration.

hollow trunk virt.jpg

I appreciate all the advice and suggestions guys. Thanks.

Ces.

[lackhand]

The last picture (back rotated right a little) has the best trunk movement and I think I would make that the front.

Should be a fun one to watch so keep us posted as you carve/ramify/wire.

[Andrew Legg]

A good stump for sure. No choice really, hollow it out below the cambium line and wait for it to heal over, which it will. We always reach for the carving tools because we are impatient in this fast world.You can still develop the tree while it heals and in 10 or so years it will be a stunner. I have a corky bark elm with the same problem and i am just going to wait and keep developing it.

I hear you Bodhi, but the question in my mind is whether that scar will ever heal to the point that the bark looks "normal" . . . . whatever that is

[Ces]

thanks again for everyone's input on this tree. I've decided on the front and have got a plan for the tree and carving.

however, when is the best time for heavy carving of a Pyracantha? Now, early spring, mid-summer?

My gut tells me early spring to make best advantage of sap flow for healing but I'm going to be removing a fair bit of live material from the tree and dont want it to 'bleed out'.

As always, any help is greatly appreciated.

Cheers guys,

Ces.

[Watto]

Ces,
I prefer the photo titled "left side from original front" for a few reasons. The first one is the best feature of this tree in my opinion is that it has great trunk width, but also has movement. From the photo it looks like it goes from the left, then to the right and has the advantage of the top coming toward the viewer - so the base is great feature. The branches that have been cut off appear to be in close proxcimity to each other, so I would create a uro as a special feature. You can then build the branches around those two special attractions of the tree. After that, just create an apex and the job is done.
In 2 or 3 years time it will be in fruit in May and you can show at the Illawarra show - I'll drive up to have a look at it.

[Ces]

Hey guys,

Its been a few months since i posted about this tree, however everyone gave me so much to think about I had to take a pause and give the next step a good amount of consideration.

I wish I hadn't waited SO long however, as despite persistant pest treatments this tree, while showing no signs of discomfort, has quite an ant infestation.

Today, I decided t go with the suggestions of viky and others by hollowing the tree (more has been done by the ants) and making the scar the feature but have come to a stand still with further branch selection at the moment... but more on that later in the post.

Anyway, this is how the tree looked before work today after nine months of cutting back to the first few leaves after extension...

front 2 jan 2014.jpg

left side 2 jan 2014.jpg

back 2 jan 2014.jpg

right 2 jan 2014.jpg

And some shots after initial carving and 70% completion of the branch selection.

front after work 2 jan 2014.jpg

front after work and w size comparison 2 jan 2014.jpg

So apart from any general criticisms and suggestions that you can offer, which I welcome and appreciate as always, I have two specific questions...
1. Would you cut back to here (below) to form the new crown?

front after work w bag 2 jan 2014.jpg

or go with the taller branch structure that is leaning away but that may be able to be coaxed forward with aggression and time?

and 2.
What do I do to keep the whole plant from rotting now that ants have almost completely hollowed it out (they now have ant sand in their den )?

All and any help greatly appreciated everyone.

Cheers,

Ces.

[Boics]

Mate. No real advice from me.
Just wanted to say job well done on the carving and front placement. In my opinion you have taken this tree in the right direction and received some very sound advice.

I look forward to seeing the next steps you take on this one!