Where do my trees grow?

[Ray M]

Hi all,
It occurred to me with many new members joining the forum and such a wealth of information, it could be helpful to share some thoughts about interpreting the advice given.

When some advice is given about a tree or whatever the following may be helpful to consider.

Is the tree the same species?
What state does the person giving the advise live in? The temperature difference could be quite different.
How often does the person water? Do they water with a hose or a sprinkler/drip system?
How open are the pots used? Is the tree in a Bonsai pot or a growing pot?
How open is the potting mix?
Does the person use fertilizer? If so, how often and what kind?
Two Bonsai grower living next door to each other could have a different mini environment. Are the grounds where the trees are located influenced by shade from large trees? Does one property get more shade from the house than the other? Is one property more susceptible to wind than the other?

If others would like to add to this list, please do so.

I hope this will help us to think about the advise given.

Regards Ray

[shibui]

I think we also need to remember that we are dealing with biology rather than mathematics. With living things there is often many ways to achieve the same result. When you get 3 different solutions to the same question check all that Ray has said above but also consider that there might just be several valid solutions.

[Ray M]

I think we also need to remember that we are dealing with biology rather than mathematics. With living things there is often many ways to achieve the same result. When you get 3 different solutions to the same question check all that Ray has said above but also consider that there might just be several valid solutions.

Hi Shibu,
Well said, some very good points.

Regards Ray

[Mojo Moyogi]

Just from reading this thread it's clear that Shibui is from Yackandandah and Ray M is from Winston Hills, NSW.

What can be a bit frustrating when trying to help people in a spare minute during the day or night is the amount of members who have "Australia" "NSW" or some other very amusing non-location in their profile. To those members, please do us a favour and give us a decent idea of where you are. It doesn't have to be the exact town or suburb if you are worried about your privacy.

There are lots of members here that are more than willing to answer questions and offer advice if asked. Some like myself, fly in for 10 minutes and then fly out again, we don't always have time to ask where someone is located.

Cheers,
Mojo

P.S. If you don't know how to change your profile, ask a moderator or read below as someone will probably post instructions.

[MattA]

A growers natural bent ... artistic or horticultural ...

Ray, can a bonsai pot also be considered a growing pot?

Mojo, I couldn't agree more, its hard enough to answer many questions without also first having to ask where they are, with members from all over the world on the forum they could be round the corner or half way round the world...

[Ray M]

Hi Matt,

Ray, can a bonsai pot also be considered a growing pot?

Yes, your right, they can be considered as a growing pot, especially if someone uses a larger pot than they intend the tree to finally be planted in. You may be aware that I use a lot of colanders to grow my trees up until I would consider them as a bonsai. The amount of watering and fertilizing required for a colander may be more than a bonsai pot.

P.S. Thanks for the comments so far. Keep them coming.

Regards Ray

[lackhand]

I know it's not super accurate since it's self reported, but I always look at the bonsai age in the profile. Even then, my estimated five years experience is not necessarily the same as somebody else's five years as our exposure to different techniques and species will be different.

But it's still a good thing to look at. Advice from an experienced grower like Ray or shibui as seen above (there are obviously others) should be weighed far more heavily than mine, for example. Sometimes I even see newbies giving advice, which is fine as long as you realize they're new.

The other thing I look at is results - either finished trees or progressions that show successful techniques by the person. Somebody that has grown world class trees obviously knows what they're doing, and I tend to listen to those people. Best example for me is Pup with melaleucas. I would try anything he told me to with them, because he has so many fantastic mels.

And last but not least, you should be FAR more picky about what horticultural advice you follow than stylistic. Stylistic mistakes can often be overcome with a restyle. Horticultural mistakes result in dead or unhealthy trees and discouraged growers, which is especially frustrating for newcomers.

[Ray M]

Hi Karl,
Some very good points raised. I understand what you are saying about folk who are new to the art of bonsai, but, I learnt a longgggg time ago to listen to all that is said, then make an informed decision as to how relevant the information is to you. You never know when you will find a real gem.

Once again, some good ideas are being expressed. Keep them coming.

Regards Ray

[Shane Martin]

I know it's not super accurate since it's self reported, but I always look at the bonsai age in the profile. Even then, my estimated five years experience is not necessarily the same as somebody else's five years as our exposure to different techniques and species will be different.

But it's still a good thing to look at. Advice from an experienced grower like Ray or shibui as seen above (there are obviously others) should be weighed far more heavily than mine, for example. Sometimes I even see newbies giving advice, which is fine as long as you realize they're new.

The other thing I look at is results - either finished trees or progressions that show successful techniques by the person. Somebody that has grown world class trees obviously knows what they're doing, and I tend to listen to those people. Best example for me is Pup with melaleucas. I would try anything he told me to with them, because he has so many fantastic mels.

And last but not least, you should be FAR more picky about what horticultural advice you follow than stylistic. Stylistic mistakes can often be overcome with a restyle. Horticultural mistakes result in dead or unhealthy trees and discouraged growers, which is especially frustrating for newcomers.

Hi Karl,
I have been doing bonsai for 30 yrs, and have learnt more in the last 2 years than ever before, since being involved in forum discussions like this one.
As a general rule, I too have a glance at the "age" status on members shelling out advice, and am open to hearing from all ages..... there are some really talented newbies out there, however, I do like to see pictorial evidence to back up the advise of techniques given... the likes of Ray M's posts are brilliant, to name just one. I am extremely grateful to all the regular experts who freely share their wealth of knowledge and experience with complete strangers.

[Josh]

Just from reading this thread it's clear that Shibui is from Yackandandah and Ray M is from Winston Hills, NSW.

What can be a bit frustrating when trying to help people in a spare minute during the day or night is the amount of members who have "Australia" "NSW" or some other very amusing non-location in their profile. To those members, please do us a favour and give us a decent idea of where you are. It doesn't have to be the exact town or suburb if you are worried about your privacy.

There are lots of members here that are more than willing to answer questions and offer advice if asked. Some like myself, fly in for 10 minutes and then fly out again, we don't always have time to ask where someone is located.

Cheers,
Mojo

P.S. If you don't know how to change your profile, ask a moderator or read below as someone will probably post instructions.

To true Mojo. Bodhi, Alpine and I all live in Victoria but have 3 very different growing conditions. If Alpine says he repots a tree now, I usually wait a couple of weeks cause it's colder here than up there so saying I'm in vic is no help.

[Pup]

The first two things I do is look where the person lives and if possible their bonsai age. The reason for the last is to try and gauge what they are really asking.
As a retired tradesman, when I had an apprentice, that had an idea we would discuss, it then if it worked we would use it if it did not we would analyze why.

This is what I try to do here, as Ray has already said, Australia is big and has a very varied range of Climates from tropical to alpine and desert.
So if you want our help please help us to understand what you need to know, about what you can grow where you live.

A by word, bonsai age is not always relevant, when I first started Bonsai in our club, naturally I asked questions of the senior members, who have now been doing { Bonsai for 30 plus years} what they have is still sticks in pots. They now ask me how they can improve it, what I would like to say after 30 plus years nothing, but I don't, I just smile put a bit of wire on and move on.
We must also understand some people want Bonsai, others will call their plants in Bonsai pots their Bonsai.

So again you must be prepared to tell us seniors what you want.
Cheers Pup

[alpineart]

Some very good info here for all . One thing i take ABSOLUTELY no notice of is "Bonsai Age" .Some were obviously doing bonsai in nappies.

For me i take the info suggested onboard and try it out after doing some research , I don't always get it right but i continue to learn and i'm teachable .

I research first , long and hard , before asking questions because i need to be able to clarify any issues that may have effected the outcome i have had in order for members to be able to help out .

I try my hardest to get the best quality pics to show when suggesting or asking something especially for Identification . No good asking a question then saying i will upload a pic soon , its too dark outside , or I will get one tomorrow , ask the question tomorrow .

If I trial something i use as many materials with as many plants and as many methods possible , not 2 or 3 plants or mediums or containers .

What works here , works for me , but if i was to move 10 - 20 or 100klms in any direction then i would have to adjust and tweek basically every little detail i employ here .

I noticed plants that grow in the lower town here won't grow as well 200 metres higher up on the hill where i live as the heavy fog i get effects the frosts and they are less severe or none existent .

The fog also effects the amount of direct sunlight i receive in Winter by up to 3 hours .There are streets here that get no direct sunlight during the Winter even parts of the main highway are frost zones all day

It can and does rain more in the town than on the north facing hill i live on , the main town is in a different valley , is on the south side on the very same hill i live on and it effects the weather considerably.

Northerly and Westerly winds hammer me yet the main lower township is sheltered it gets a beating from Southerly , Easterly and Westerly winds only .

Radiant heat from the lower town is a real issue here , not so down the street .

There are so many variables to take into consideration when dealing with Mother Nature and the plant world , but at the end of the day research is definitely the best approach for those that CAN be bothered .

When all else fails "Ask a question" but make sure it hasn't been covered before on the forum .

Cheers Alpineart

[DavidWilloughby]

One thing i take ABSOLUTELY no notice of is "Bonsai Age" .Some were obviously doing bonsai in nappies.

+1. I cannot agree moreso with that statement, thank you for posting that Alpine. There is a very fine art in being able to sift through all the information given at times to get to the bits that actually work for you.

Also, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

Great thread Ray.

Cheers

David