fused maples, what about elms?

[Jamie]

hey every one, I'm new to the site.

I was wondering if anyone has seen or tried the fusing techniques in putting maples together around a frame or timber block and having the saplings fuse over time, if any one has done this with chinese elms?
reasoning is i have been wanting to do this with maples for a while but access to the seedling needed is hard to find, i am in the process of trying to propagate but was thinking if youy can do it with maples then you can do it with elms as these are more accessable.


any thoughts and advice would be good thanks.


regards jamie

[Jamie]

heres a site that i found that has a good progression on trident maples developed in this fashion.

http://www.dugzbonsai.com/index.htm

[kcpoole]

I see no reason why elms would not work just as well
Give em a go and post you result here

[Jamie]

i have intended on trying it for a couple of years now, i will have to source the materials to get started then enough elms to start it. i am thinking i will be doing something smaller than what is shown on that website. probly half that size, covering maybe 12 inches, or even smaller. will keep researching the idea and when i have sorted everything out i will give it a bash. my only issue is getting the elm whips. i dont know if i will be able to buy enough so i think i might have to take enough cuttings and try and get them to take root to cover the frame.

the frame size i intend on trying will probly be about 10-12 inches high. somewhere around 6-8 inches in trunk diameter at the base. some what of a sumo style i guess.
not sure of whether to go with a basic straight up formal upright or putting some twists and turns in it.

lets make this a bit more interesting and have this as a "peoples bonsai" as such.
if everyone wants to put there two bob in and let me know their thoughts on what they would like to see i will take the most popular choice and try and make it a reality with a full progressionb series posted exclusivly on this site!

so put your ideas down, any thing will be put into consideration. a quick drawing of what you would like to see. whatever you guys feel like. if you are interested enough!!

regards Jamie

[Jow]

I am pretty sure that elms will not work as well as tridents. All the elms i have seen have shown no signs of roots fusing together, in fact they tend to stay round and rope like. Tridents when planted over a rock will have their roots deform and flatten around the rock where as the elms i have seen have kept their roots profile. That leads me to think that they will do the same with their trunks and not fuse as readily as say a trident, fig, or similar.
As far as elms go, you might get lucky with a zelkova, because they tend to fuse their roots a little more easily.

[Jamie]

ahh this is some of the information that i was after. just a technicality its not so much the roots that need to fuse as the trunks. but if the trunks are going to keep a cylindrical shape this may cause a problem... or a feature. I am now wondering if it will cause a fluted apperance to the trunk. like seen on deeply fluted figs or even redwoods.
this is some thing that needs to be investigated as this information will greatly help the process. anymore thoughts and ideas appreciated.

[Jow]

My guess is that the bark is too thick to fuse sufficiently and or easily enough. But it still might be worth a try.

[Bretts]

Seeing the difference between root over rock elm and trident I was thinking the same thing Jow.

[Jamie]

the thickness of the bark may cause a problem. maybe just extra time tho. this is something that i will have to keep detailed progression of as i intend on trying it anyways.
i might make this a control and test thing. using maples aswell.(trident)
this will have to be a reduced test now using two speice is going to make my budget for this harder.
smaller test subjects may make it difficult to wrap around smaller frame work