Propagating in General

[xIIRevoEvoS]

I plan on purchasing a JWP from Leong of Bonsai South 7th March and plan on propagating some some of the cuttings once I have purchased it.
What are the essential equipment to propagate 'ie: propagating green house tray' and would it be a ideal time of year to do it? Will the green house also able to house other type of cuttings like Juni, maples etc..and would I need anything else besides the greenhouse?
You can tell I'm a noob at propagating, I want to propagate because I plan on making some stock for future event and personal use.

http://www.bunnings.com.au/yates-mini-g ... e_p2946171
http://www.bunnings.com.au/propagation- ... 3_p2961320

[dansai]

I've always used peat and perlite 50/50 or course sand for cuttings and sometimes root hormone. I have a shade house that stays fairly humid so they just go in there. The mini greenhouse should give you reasonable success with juniper and maples but I doubt you will have any luck with the jwp. Even with fancy systems of fogging and bottom heat strike rate for jwp or most any pine is negligible at best. It's one reason jwp are often grafted.

[Elmar]

http://www.bunnings.com.au/yates-mini-g ... e_p2946171
http://www.bunnings.com.au/propagation- ... 3_p2961320

G'Day Rev. While I can't speak for JWP, I have been looking into the whole propagating thing. While you can buy loads of stuff for it, real success has more to do with experience than what you buy.
A neighbour (retired) uses a basket with holes in the sides (looks like a washing basket but holes are a lot smaller), he put holes into the bottom and then fills it up with sand-pit sand (sharps sand?!?!). Takes 10cm cuttings (green wood), strips all but the top leaves (2 or 3) dips the bottom of the cutting into a rooting hormone, some he doesn't even worry about (experience!!), wets it all down and pops it into a white garbage bag, put some water inside the bag and ties it off. Oh uses sticks to keep the bag off the cuttings. Then puts it into his carport where he utilises the summer heat but keeps it out of direct sunlight.
After a month or 2 he pulls them out of the bag and does his inspection.

Seems very simple, much cheaper than The big green sheds offerings and he sells his propagated plants at the local market for pocket money ... After
My post if the "Swamp" experience, I want to give this a go. Pup uses small pots and soft drink bottle bottoms as glass house tops to keep the humidity up... Again, experience AND cheaper alternative...


Cheers
EZ
Via Tapatalk

[Phoenix238]

I'm no expert and my past success rates are terrible (but improving) but my one piece of advice is a quote: "done is better than perfect"

Basically, do what research you can, but at the end of the day you're better off doing something and failing (learning) than searching for the perfect system and never actually trying

[Elmar]

I'm no expert and my past success rates are terrible (but improving) but my one piece of advice is a quote: "done is better than perfect"

Basically, do what research you can, but at the end of the day you're better off doing something and failing (learning) than searching for the perfect system and never actually trying

well ... seems you've just described me - altho I'm working on changing that now!

[xIIRevoEvoS]

I'm no expert and my past success rates are terrible (but improving) but my one piece of advice is a quote: "done is better than perfect"

Basically, do what research you can, but at the end of the day you're better off doing something and failing (learning) than searching for the perfect system and never actually trying

I would prefer to ask first before I experiment, mainly on materials.
1 thing I have learnt so far is not to bend maples so much that they snap off

[xIIRevoEvoS]

http://www.bunnings.com.au/yates-mini-g ... e_p2946171
http://www.bunnings.com.au/propagation- ... 3_p2961320

G'Day Rev. While I can't speak for JWP, I have been looking into the whole propagating thing. While you can buy loads of stuff for it, real success has more to do with experience than what you buy.
A neighbour (retired) uses a basket with holes in the sides (looks like a washing basket but holes are a lot smaller), he put holes into the bottom and then fills it up with sand-pit sand (sharps sand?!?!). Takes 10cm cuttings (green wood), strips all but the top leaves (2 or 3) dips the bottom of the cutting into a rooting hormone, some he doesn't even worry about (experience!!), wets it all down and pops it into a white garbage bag, put some water inside the bag and ties it off. Oh uses sticks to keep the bag off the cuttings. Then puts it into his carport where he utilises the summer heat but keeps it out of direct sunlight.
After a month or 2 he pulls them out of the bag and does his inspection.

Seems very simple, much cheaper than The big green sheds offerings and he sells his propagated plants at the local market for pocket money ... After
My post if the "Swamp" experience, I want to give this a go. Pup uses small pots and soft drink bottle bottoms as glass house tops to keep the humidity up... Again, experience AND cheaper alternative...


Cheers
EZ
Via Tapatalk

Already experimenting on 1 Squamta Juniper cutting from market day already - Applied honey on the cambium and placed it into Megumi Bonsai Mix - Bonsai Art with a bottle on top and a small hole on the bottle lid for ventilation. Will keep this in mind with basket propagating, saw a similar technique on Youtuber or a website

[shibui]

No 1: NOTHING is ESSENTIAL. There are always alternatives.
I prefer to use propagating mix to strike cuttingshttp://retail.debco.com.au/products/spe ... gation-mix. Most nursery outlets will have this or a similar product. It is fairly sterile so less fungal/bacterial infection on the fresh cuts, holds water but also drains well so good air too which are all essential for success with cuttings. I have not used the peat pellets but they might work.
I also prefer slightly larger pots to maintain moisture around the cuttings. 75mm full depth plastic pots work best for me. That might mean the mini propagator is just a little too shallow for pots and cuttings.
Humidity is essential. Automatic misting is the ultimate for striking cuttings but below that any closed container will suffice for many species. That's what the mini propagator will do for you - maintain high humidity. Some alternatives I have used successfully: Plastic bags over the pots can work ok; For larger numbers, Clear plastic storage tubs with lid http://www.bunnings.com.au/award-50l-pa ... s_p2580445- Place a couple of bricks in the bottom, fill halfway up the bricks with water to maintain humidity then place your pots of cuttings on the bricks (or boards/mesh/etc sitting on the bricks). Keep the lid on until cuttings show signs of growing then you can leave it propped open slightly to start hardening the growth.
Rooting compound is a definite advantage in getting harder to strike species growing. I know that some growers use honey and/or vegemite but my tests show that rooting gel has definite advantage and gel is superior to powder for me. http://www.bunnings.com.au/propagation- ... 0_p3012537

My first ever attempt at striking White pine had 100% success (1 plant from 1 cutting ) but attempts since then have been less successful . It is possible to strike white pine cuttings but you are starting with the more difficult species so be prepared for less than spectacular results.

[xIIRevoEvoS]

No 1: NOTHING is ESSENTIAL. There are always alternatives.
I prefer to use propagating mix to strike cuttingshttp://retail.debco.com.au/products/spe ... gation-mix. Most nursery outlets will have this or a similar product. It is fairly sterile so less fungal/bacterial infection on the fresh cuts, holds water but also drains well so good air too which are all essential for success with cuttings. I have not used the peat pellets but they might work.
I also prefer slightly larger pots to maintain moisture around the cuttings. 75mm full depth plastic pots work best for me. That might mean the mini propagator is just a little too shallow for pots and cuttings.
Humidity is essential. Automatic misting is the ultimate for striking cuttings but below that any closed container will suffice for many species. That's what the mini propagator will do for you - maintain high humidity. Some alternatives I have used successfully: Plastic bags over the pots can work ok; For larger numbers, Clear plastic storage tubs with lid http://www.bunnings.com.au/award-50l-pa ... s_p2580445- Place a couple of bricks in the bottom, fill halfway up the bricks with water to maintain humidity then place your pots of cuttings on the bricks (or boards/mesh/etc sitting on the bricks). Keep the lid on until cuttings show signs of growing then you can leave it propped open slightly to start hardening the growth.
Rooting compound is a definite advantage in getting harder to strike species growing. I know that some growers use honey and/or vegemite but my tests show that rooting gel has definite advantage and gel is superior to powder for me. http://www.bunnings.com.au/propagation- ... 0_p3012537

My first ever attempt at striking White pine had 100% success (1 plant from 1 cutting ) but attempts since then have been less successful . It is possible to strike white pine cuttings but you are starting with the more difficult species so be prepared for less than spectacular results.

Been to Bonsai South today and they also said the same thing, the lady said that a person from Canberra bought 3 JWP from Leong and tried to air layer but also had little success, in return the JWP that was layered all died.. due to Australian climate and compared to JBP are easier to layer/cuttings.

Do you think Junipers are more ideal to use mini propagators since its shallow and the cuttings are shorter due to new shoot/existing growth.

I also prefer slightly larger pots to maintain moisture around the cuttings

Whereas Elms, Maples, Pines etc.. are better off using 75mm depth storage box

[bki]

Propagation is a good experiment and experience but at the end of the exercise, I should have ordered starters online or drove to the nursery , 6 bucks for instant starter. no offence please, that's just my personal experience.

[xIIRevoEvoS]

Propagation is a good experiment and experience but at the end of the exercise, I should have ordered starters online or drove to the nursery , 6 bucks for instant starter. no offence please, that's just my personal experience.

I'm making my own stock so I can sell it as a hobby and learn what works for others/ apply it personal experience from propagating. Buying starters isn't really experimenting because its already been propagated by the nursery

[shibui]

Do you think Junipers are more ideal to use mini propagators since its shallow and the cuttings are shorter due to new shoot/existing growth.

No, maybe, depends. You can choose to strike smaller cuttings or, as I am now doing, you can choose to strike long, thin cuttings of juniper. The long, thin ones can be wired and bent to produce a twisted and bent juniper bonsai eventually. Shorter ones will take a few years to grow into something you can use. When you grow your own plants you can choose. My pine cuttings are generally quite short so would fit into the mini propagator but juniper cuttings are mostly longer and would not fit.

Whereas Elms, Maples, Pines etc.. are better off using 75mm depth storage box

.... NOTE I said I put cuttings into 75mm pots. Storage container is quite a bit bigger. room for plenty of larger cuttings in larger pots.

the lady said that a person from Canberra bought 3 JWP from Leong and tried to air layer but also had little success, in return the JWP that was layered all died.. due to Australian climate and compared to JBP are easier to layer/cuttings.

Never let someone's opinion put you off. You may have different conditions or experience, etc and may succeed where others have failed. If I had listened to prevailing opinions I would never have tried to grow pine cuttings but I now know it is possible. Check this blog entry http://shibuibonsai.com.au/japanese-bla ... -cuttings/

I do agree that white pines are difficult in Australia. All mine have failed so far. I think it is the hot summers that they do not like. I sincerely doubt that the layering of a white pine was what caused it to die. More likely it was going to die anyway because of the climate.
Black pines definitely far more hardy and suited to Aust climate.

[xIIRevoEvoS]

Do you think Junipers are more ideal to use mini propagators since its shallow and the cuttings are shorter due to new shoot/existing growth.

No, maybe, depends. You can choose to strike smaller cuttings or, as I am now doing, you can choose to strike long, thin cuttings of juniper. The long, thin ones can be wired and bent to produce a twisted and bent juniper bonsai eventually. Shorter ones will take a few years to grow into something you can use. When you grow your own plants you can choose. My pine cuttings are generally quite short so would fit into the mini propagator but juniper cuttings are mostly longer and would not fit.

Whereas Elms, Maples, Pines etc.. are better off using 75mm depth storage box

.... NOTE I said I put cuttings into 75mm pots. Storage container is quite a bit bigger. room for plenty of larger cuttings in larger pots.

the lady said that a person from Canberra bought 3 JWP from Leong and tried to air layer but also had little success, in return the JWP that was layered all died.. due to Australian climate and compared to JBP are easier to layer/cuttings.

Never let someone's opinion put you off. You may have different conditions or experience, etc and may succeed where others have failed. If I had listened to prevailing opinions I would never have tried to grow pine cuttings but I now know it is possible. Check this blog entry http://shibuibonsai.com.au/japanese-bla ... -cuttings/

I do agree that white pines are difficult in Australia. All mine have failed so far. I think it is the hot summers that they do not like. I sincerely doubt that the layering of a white pine was what caused it to die. More likely it was going to die anyway because of the climate.
Black pines definitely far more hardy and suited to Aust climate.

[Bones6966]

i have been experimenting with propagating Canadian maple with a cutting about 6 inch long and just leaving 2 leaves on the end. Only,used,new growth as well and just diping in rooting gell amd hanging it in about 2 inch of distilled watter. Ill post a picture of one of them starting to root. Only problem im having is when i plant them they die on me. http://imgur.com/oWhIeiM

[treeman]

Completly forget about Japanese white Pines from cuttings. You won't succeed .Stick to other stuff.