5 20yr old neglected bougs. What to do?

Tim.C · Post by **Tim.C** » May 3rd, 2015, 8:46 am

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Hi all, I've been given these bougs from my parents, and I dont know how they are still alive honestly. They got given them from friends of theirs who had them in the ground for a few years, about 15yrs ago. I'm pretty sure in the 15 years my parents have had them, they've never been repoted, (topped up once or twice with potting mix maybe), and can probably count on one hand the amount of times they've been fertilised or watered. (Apart from rain).

Now I have the fun job of bringing them back to health and try bonsai them. Can I repot them up here in brissy this time of year? They badly need it, and if so, how hard should I cut them back? And your thoughts on where and style would be much appreciated. I would like to get one of them (boug 3 is my favourite, but not set in stone), into a bonsai pot as soon as possible though, as I'm yet to have a tree in a bonsai pot. Being patient and have lots of pre bonsai growing/thickening, but I think I'm happy enough with the larger trunks to put at least one in bonsai pot. Any ideas, comments, and opinions would be welcome. Sorry for the poor photos. Only have a phone. No computer either. Can take more from other angles if you like.

Thanks
Tim

Post by **Bougy Fan** » May 3rd, 2015, 8:58 am

You can cut them back as hard as you like - you don't have to leave any foliage on them. Seal the cuts to stop them rotting and also cutting on an angle helps so water can't sit on the cut. It is ideal to repot now - be careful with them as the roots can be very delicate and break easily. If they are fairly straight you may want to cut them back really hard to start growing for taper.

Elmar · Post by **Elmar** » May 3rd, 2015, 9:08 am

Mate I'd be careful! Those bougies seem to have a drinking problem...
Best to sober them up before moving them too much otherwise they're just going to make a mess of your back yard! Wouldn't be surprised if they hurl abuse at you, too... 15 you said, well that's just smack-dab in the troublesome years, if you ask me!

Cheers
Elmar

Elmar · Post by **Elmar** » May 3rd, 2015, 9:08 am

Lol, my wife likes bougies - I'll be watchin fer sure!

Cheers
Elmar

Post by **kcpoole** » May 3rd, 2015, 10:02 am

Repot them now and cut them back to remove the leggy growth on them. I did some figs here a few weeks back so you should have no worries.

Have a look at the trunks and see if you can find a nice tapering line from the soil to the branches. cut off everything else you do not need.
They will back bud as well so you can plan on getting new branches wherever you need.

Ken

Tim.C · Post by **Tim.C** » May 3rd, 2015, 10:46 am

Thanks guys, going to start on them soon. Where my confusion lies is all these bougs fork real low to the ground, and then there are lots of branches everywhere down low too. And having no experience in the bonsai side of growing plants, I'm finding it difficult to picture what I would like the tree to become, from what I've got. (Or is It too early in the picture to decide that?). Plus that they fork so close to the ground, with both sides of the fork having girth isn't making it easier. I've looked through the net at bonsai boug pictures, and most are single trunk, and the few multi trunks I find have a large and small trunk. Whatever I cut off I will strike roots on, so I think it comes down to stop procrastinating and start cutting. If I cut these down to about 150mm stumps, that would be removing roughly 80% of the top. I'm assuming I can cut that much off the top in one go. Can I cut more roots off with removing that off the top?, or can I still only cut a third of the roots off? Any suggestions on which trunks to cut where would be greatly appreciated. I've really got no idea and winging it.

Thanks
Tim

Post by **Bougy Fan** » May 3rd, 2015, 1:29 pm

If at a fork I would always leave the branch that has as much movement as possible. You can try some cuttings but really unless there is some merit in the shape of the branch it is not worthwhile. The hardest thing to learn as a beginner is to cut back hard early - it can save you years in development. Time is the one thing we don't have endless amounts of. Just cut back and wait for the tree to speak to you - you will see a plan eventually.

Elmar · Post by **Elmar** » May 3rd, 2015, 4:55 pm

Bougy,
Would you reduce the roots at the same time or just let them go as they are even tho cutting back the top?!?

Tim,
You can always (and I'd suggest that you do) pull back some of the dirt at the base to expose some of the roots at the top and, hopefully expose not only more trunk but a good nebarie as well. Be gentle... Lol

Cheers
Elmar

Post by **Bougy Fan** » May 3rd, 2015, 5:05 pm

In this case if they haven't been repotted for a long time I would at least bare root them and sort out some of the roots. No point in cutting the roots right back if they are to grow on for a while

Tim.C · Post by **Tim.C** » May 3rd, 2015, 7:52 pm

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Hi guys,

Had a busy afternoon but finished the bougs, then had to race and take me daughter out. Finally got five minutes to put my feet up, so I thought I'd put my new trees up.

Learnt a lot on from my first. I cut my tree before getting it out of the old pot and..... Well that's when everything fell into place. Got my tree out of the old pot, hosed some dirt from the roots and trunk and found so much more. That's the point where everything went click. My stick mirrors everything I learnt from it. Done everything wrong and ended up with what looks like a cutting. Happy enough with the rest though. Ran out of time with them this arv, so going to prune back a lot harder still, and still have to seal wounds yet.

Found out tho, when you don't repot your tree for 15 years, only keep filling the pot all those years, I had a continuous supply of plentiful fine roots all the way to the bottom of the pot. What was the original trunk, was buried many times over, and had rotted away many moons ago along with all the thick roots on it. And every top up of the potting mix, the tree was burried another 2" it would rot the bottom off and grow fresh feeder roots in the new mix. Not good for growing big trunks I think. The bigger trunks, trees 3 & 4 I think, are rotten all the way from bottom of main growth to top, but have a 3mm ring of live wood all the way round the outside of the trunk. It's throwing new buds, so at least it's still alive.

They're all either planted in shallow pots or on cds or slate, and all the trees had heaps of fine roots. Thinking I should cut back to stumps, recover and get to know my trees and start wiring for twelve months, then into bonsai pots or slate. see how the go. I'm hoping on tree 3, with the rotten trunk centre, I can carve out all the rot and be left with a 3mm ring, 40mm at the base still growing. Probably a bit ambitious for one of my first bonsai, but what's the worst that can happen? I kill a half rotten tree, and learn more.

Tim

p.s. Nearly forgot. All these trees are planted about 2" higher than in thier old pots. Tree three I think, the old soul line is over three inches above where it is now.

Tim.C · Post by **Tim.C** » May 3rd, 2015, 8:33 pm

Been thinking of my bougs, and thought after 15yrs (even with all the neglect),they would be bigger in diameter than they are. They have an old weathered look in the bark, (can't tell in the photos), but just small. I also noticed all the trunks had a fair bit of rot in the bottom of them, and it runs up the into the tree. Is rot normal in boug trunks or is mine because the tree kept getting burried deeper every time the pot was topped up. The trunks only went 3" or so into the soil, so I'm figuring anything under that rotted.

What I'm wondering is, would the rot in the trunks be what's keeping the trunks small?, or because it has to continue making new roots when the pot gets filled and the bottom rots so can't make wood while always making roots? Or both? And will this rot give me issues in time and kill my trees, or can it be dealt with?

Thanks
Tim

shibui · Post by **shibui** » May 3rd, 2015, 9:09 pm

Rot in trunks by itself does not stop trees from growing. Only the outside wood is alive and helping food flow in the tree so the inside of the trunk is just for support. Think of all the huge old hollow trees that are in the bush - still healthy. Mostly the rot will stay in the heartwood so it will not harm the living parts of the trunk but you can clean all the soft bits out and keep it a bit drier to slow the process. Fungicide will also kill the fungi that cause the rot.
Growing new roots also does not really stop the trunk thickening but with more healthy roots there would be more nutrients to make the tree grow faster and bigger. I actually use this technique to grow better roots on tridents and make the trunks thicker. Seedlings are threaded through holes drilled in aluminium sheet then planted so the al sheet is about 2 cm below soil level. As the trunk thickens circulation is cut off by the al and the tree grows new roots just above - like a layer. The new roots are forced to grow sideways over the al sheet which gives a great horizontal nebari and with all the new roots growing horizontally the trunk thickens dramatically at soil level.

So neither of these things have really stopped your trunks from thickening. The real reason is in your first post -

I'm pretty sure in the 15 years my parents have had them, they've never been repoted, (topped up once or twice with potting mix maybe), and can probably count on one hand the amount of times they've been fertilised or watered. (Apart from rain).

Very limited nutrients, inadequate water and no room for new roots. That's the reason these are still little.

AusBonsai

5 20yr old neglected bougs. What to do?

5 20yr old neglected bougs. What to do?

Re: 5 20yr old neglected bougs. What to do?

Re: 5 20yr old neglected bougs. What to do?

Re: 5 20yr old neglected bougs. What to do?

Re: 5 20yr old neglected bougs. What to do?

Re: 5 20yr old neglected bougs. What to do?

Re: 5 20yr old neglected bougs. What to do?

Re: 5 20yr old neglected bougs. What to do?

Re: 5 20yr old neglected bougs. What to do?

Re: 5 20yr old neglected bougs. What to do?

Re: 5 20yr old neglected bougs. What to do?

Re: 5 20yr old neglected bougs. What to do?