Japanese white pine is this worth it?

discus · Post by **discus** » October 28th, 2016, 2:44 am

Hi all,
I know that it's very difficult to give answer on my question but I am not asking for exactly numbers.
The thing is that I want to buy one white pine but I am not sure if the price or the amount is fair. Its 1600$ Australian dollars. Its like 80cm tall and I have attached a picture of it. What do you think?

tgward · Post by **tgward** » October 28th, 2016, 6:16 am

in paying that much for a tree I would need to have done a whole heap of research and comparison of other similar trees--then It comes down to whether you like it that much and whether you have the knowledge to maintain and improve the tree while its in your custody.

CraigM · Post by **CraigM** » October 28th, 2016, 6:34 am

Agree with tgward. I see you're based in the UK, is this sort of material readily available, if so how does it compare. In Australia have not seen any good white pines (I know they exist, but are not common), this would also influence price. It's a nice tree with good character.

Boics · Post by **Boics** » October 28th, 2016, 6:35 am

Looks like a beautiful tree to me.
At the end of the day price is subjective - it's only worth what one is willing to pay..... and sell.

KIRKY · Post by **KIRKY** » October 28th, 2016, 7:09 am

At that price I don't see it selling overnight. My suggestion is shop around. See what else you can find and the prices being asked. Approach Bonsai Clubs and see if any members have trees for sale. Check Bonsai Nurseries too. Only then can you decide if the tree is worth it.

To pay that kind of money you really need to be sure you can look after it.
Cheers
Kirky

Steve B · Post by **Steve B** » October 28th, 2016, 7:10 am

Absolutely, its a bargain on pretty much every metric you can apply:
1 Time value of money. Let's assume it's 40 years old (could be older as it looks pretty impressive). Assuming a discount rate of 5% p.a. you're actually only paying $230 for the tree once you allow for its age.
2 Entertainment value. Netflix costs $12 a month in Aus. that's 11 years of viewing netflix vs an equivalent amount of time looking at/working on the tree. Getting off the couch and saving your online time to looking through bonsai sites sounds a better option - particularly when you throw in the fact the tree could still be worth something at the end of that period.
3 Labour rates. A 40 year old tree and I'd (very) conservatively estimate 20 hours a year of effort to get it where it is. That's $2 an hour. Sweet! You're actually exploiting a bonsai professional at slave labour rates! Out of respect for the person who grew it you should probably make a counter-offer at $16,000

The above is all predicated on two important considerations:
- you're confident you have the skills to keep the tree alive and continue to maintain and develop it
- you have the money to spend on it (and wont need to carry out some kind of cyber crime to get the funds)

*The above should not be construed as financial advice or as representing the views of this website or it's community. It relies on a number of completely unfounded assumptions and questionable financial modelling methods. Blah blah, blah blah, blah blah blah....

Daluke · Post by **Daluke** » October 28th, 2016, 7:38 am

Where are you buying from and moving it too?

How old is the tree?

What's it's background?

bonsaisensation · Post by **bonsaisensation** » October 28th, 2016, 7:45 am

It's got some obviou issues: the nebari isn't great, the first and second branch appeared thick taperless and straight, the bulge on the trunk 2/3 of the way up. On the positives: it appeared to be grown from seed, trunk is mature and aged, the branches apart from the first two, have nice subbranches closer to the trunk.

I'd buy it if I saw it here in Australia. As the others pointed out, seed grown white pines are rare here.

treeman · Post by **treeman** » October 28th, 2016, 9:01 am

If it wasn't grafted onto black pine it would be worth at least twice that. I think 1600 is fair to highish.

kez · Post by **kez** » October 28th, 2016, 9:38 am

interesting,

We have 2 authorities here, both highly skilled,

One says seed grown, one says grafted......

I initially assumed seed grown also, but the colour of the needles suggests grafted? The age would certainly help in hiding the graft but I am not sure either way. I would be interested to see the reasons behind both assessments,

Tien, why do you say seed grown?

Mike, why grafted?

Either way, for me it has good bones, it is clearly very old, and while there are a couple of flaws, the same is true for all trees and on the basis if I had the money, and I knew I could further it's development I would buy it

Rolf · Post by **Rolf** » October 28th, 2016, 12:21 pm

discus wrote:Hi all,
I know that it's very difficult to give answer on my question but I am not asking for exactly numbers.
The thing is that I want to buy one white pine but I am not sure if the price or the amount is fair. Its 1600$ Australian dollars. Its like 80cm tall and I have attached a picture of it. What do you think?

Hi Discus,

I personally think it's a bargain!!!

I do grow JBP from seed and have experienced the labour and work you have to put in and still do

to get good material!!

So for me it's definitely a bargain, there will be always people who find some kind of design faults etc, ask em to show their trees, might be a surprise!?

Cheers

Rolf

treeman · Post by **treeman** » October 28th, 2016, 12:40 pm

kez wrote:interesting,

We have 2 authorities here, both highly skilled,

One says seed grown, one says grafted......

I initially assumed seed grown also, but the colour of the needles suggests grafted? The age would certainly help in hiding the graft but I am not sure either way. I would be interested to see the reasons behind both assessments,

Tien, why do you say seed grown?

Mike, why grafted?

Either way, for me it has good bones, it is clearly very old, and while there are a couple of flaws, the same is true for all trees and on the basis if I had the money, and I knew I could further it's development I would buy it

It is very clearly grafted onto black pine stock (or some other pine)

grapin.JPG

KIRKY · Post by **KIRKY** » October 28th, 2016, 12:49 pm

Yep I thought the same, grafted. Trunk/bark is the clue always. I think the cost issue is Australia JWP rare higher cost.
UK not that rare they don't have our stringent rules on imports.
Cheers
Kirky

bonsaisensation · Post by **bonsaisensation** » October 28th, 2016, 2:53 pm

Funny the first thing I checked was whether it is grafted or not. In a way the live veins running up from the root to the supposed graft site "appeared" quite natural. And the jin on the right and the dead wood below it, all added to the weathered and aged appearance. Something worth considering when trying to disguise the graft?

Regards

Tien

discus · Post by **discus** » October 28th, 2016, 3:31 pm

First thanks a lot to all for a responses. Sorry it was my mistake not to write that its grafted to black pine.
I agree the nebari its not if the best, but like the old bark and the well formed pads. Reading your opinions it seems that the tree deserves his price.

AusBonsai

Japanese white pine is this worth it?

Japanese white pine is this worth it?

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