Pinea Glauca

[quodlibet_ens]

This is my first attempt to style a tree of any type. I had read a number of posts here about what branches to cut, though I think I'm going to need a serious amount of practice to get the hang of wiring -- it just didn't seem natural to me.

In any case, I would love to get your feedback and constructive criticism on where I went wrong, things I did okay with and what I need to look out for in the future with this tree.

Cheers.

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[Raging Bull]

Hi quod,
I'm pretty new at this too,so don't take everything I say as true & factual, it's just my opinion.Apart from a couple of cross-overs in the wiring it isn't too bad. I'm about at the same skill level there. The pruning was a bit haphazard, seems like there are are a lot of the branches that look like bar branches, i.e. they are too close on opposite sides of the trunk and look like a +. You've also left the trunk quite straight. If it's not too stiff and difficult perhaps you could put a couple of bends into it, unless of course you are working on making it a formal upright. You haven't mentioned what style you have in mind. I presume the second trunk has been left as a sacrificial to help develop the bottom of the main trunk?
I'm sure some other more experienced & knowledgeable members will be able to point you in the right direction.
Cheers,
Frank.

[KIRKY]

Are you going to keep the second trunk as a twin trunk or are you leaving it as a sacrifice branch?
You should look these up on google. Walter Pall styles these very naturally. Your branches are a bit to straight across
I would change their angle a bit.
Cheers
Kirky

[quodlibet_ens]

Thanks Raging Bull and Kirky. Looking at it again I can see a number of things I've done wrong in cutting branches. After having done an image search for Walter Pall spruces, I've not left any branches on the front or the back of the tree like there are in the images I saw. I'm a bit disappointed in what I've done.

I am going for a natural informal upright with this tree. The trunk is still quite flexible, but the wire would not hold to the shape it tried to bend it to. I either have the wrong wire for the job or I've wired it incorrectly. I'd wager it's a combination of both. As far as the second trunk is concerned, my thoughts were to keep it as a second trunk and possibly turning it into a jin after it thickens a bit.

So, if I'm attempting a natural, informal upright and possibly looking to jin the second trunk at some stage, what further advice could you all give me moving forward? Should I rewire? What gauge wire should I be using to bend the trunk and have it hold its shape? Should I worry too much about having cut all the branches off the front and the back of the tree?

Thanks again for your feedback so far.

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[KIRKY]

If you are wanting to put more bends on this tree you can use a heavier gauge wire. No nee to remove what you have done just wire it beside the wire you currently have. I noticed you have some wire crossing on top of another wire. Try not to do that as it may bite into the tree where the wire crosses. So you will need to be mindful of that and watch that the wire doesn't bite in. For the branches you have removed front n back start feeding half n half seasol n power feed when watering for the next few weeks, then only power feed. Seasol I find helps after heavy pruning. The power feed or any other liquid feed will help to push buds. You may be able to get your front n back branches back.
Cheers
Kirky

[quodlibet_ens]

If you are wanting to put more bends on this tree you can use a heavier gauge wire. No need to remove what you have done just wire it beside the wire you currently have. I noticed you have some wire crossing on top of another wire. Try not to do that as it may bite into the tree where the wire crosses. So you will need to be mindful of that and watch that the wire doesn't bite in.

Okay, I can pick up some heavier gauge wire. Is there a particular type of wire that you find works better than other in terms of holding its shape, say Japanese wire is better than Chinese, copper is better than aluminium, etc.? Also, is it best to wire the trunk first, then the branches? I think that's where I might have gone wrong: wiring one section first when I should have wired the other.

For the branches you have removed front n back start feeding half n half seasol n power feed when watering for the next few weeks, then only power feed. Seasol I find helps after heavy pruning. The power feed or any other liquid feed will help to push buds. You may be able to get your front n back branches back.

I still can't believe I messed this part up so badly...
In any case, would you normally fertilise your trees during the Autumn and Winter months? I have continued to do it and I'm still seeing new growth on my natives (though they may be in large part because they're not deciduous?).

Thanks again for your help, Kirky.


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[NAHamilton]

Also, is it best to wire the trunk first, then the branches? I think that's where I might have gone wrong: wiring one section first when I should have wired the other.

Hi quodlibet_ens,

It is best to work large to small when wiring. This Colin Lewis course is the best I've found online regarding learning how to wire.

httpss://www.craftsy.com/gardening/class ... ials/35341

In regard to your branching have you read the "rules" in here? Whilst it's not going to create the most unique tree, following them will give you a nice looking tree and a better understanding of the way branching works.

https://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index. ... _of_Bonsai

Cheers,
Nigel

[KIRKY]

When wiring a whole tree I generally wire the trunk first. This helps when selecting branches acording to bends in the trunk.
With regards to wire. Copper wire is expensive and it does hold better so you can use a smaller gauge to do the job.
However I use Aluminum and just use a larger gauge or two wires side by side.
The Crafty site Nigel posted is very good I came across this years ago so well worth a look.
Fertilizing in Autumn and winter. Yes I fertilize all my trees except for decidious trees because they are dormant during this period. All the others i feed. I have found our winters are milder these days and continue to feed with no ill effects.
Cheers
Kirky

[KIRKY]

Sorry quod, I forgot to ask did you anchor your trunk wire when you wired your trunk. If it is not anchored correctly it will not give you leverage to bend the trunk or hold the bend.
Cheers
Kirky

[Jag001]

Quod,

Don't stress too much about the branch selections you have made, this is all part of the learning process, I can remember only too well when I first started I created some perfectly flat two dimensional trees! The secret is to learn from the mistakes we have made and not repeat them in the future.

One of the other things I have learnt (very slowly) is that in the beginning we all want to create that "instant bonsai" that looks like a tree right from the outset, rather than looking at a tree and having the vision of developing it over time to take the shape we want.

The other thing that I was "Very Slow" to learn is that sometimes we just have to cut off those big branches!

There is an alternative to trying to put some bend into your trunk, which is still going to ultimately lack taper. You could always trunk chop this down to just above your lowest branch and start training this tree from scratch all over again, or even more radically you could chop the main trunk and use what you have kept as a sacrifice/future Jin as the main trunk.

Just food for thought.

cheers,
JEff

[quodlibet_ens]

In regard to your branching have you read the "rules" in here? Whilst it's not going to create the most unique tree, following them will give you a nice looking tree and a better understanding of the way branching works.

https://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index. ... _of_Bonsai

All my interaction here is via the app, so I haven't seen the wiki. This will come in handy in the future. Thanks for this!



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[quodlibet_ens]

did you anchor your trunk wire when you wired your trunk. If it is not anchored correctly it will not give you leverage to bend the trunk or hold the bend.

The short answer to this is no, no I didn't anchor the wire for the trunk...

I am now, however, realising I should have anchored the wire for the trunk. I think I will rewire the tree again and attempt to do it properly. I'm sure both the tree and I will benefit from it.




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[quodlibet_ens]

One of the other things I have learnt (very slowly) is that in the beginning we all want to create that "instant bonsai" that looks like a tree right from the outset, rather than looking at a tree and having the vision of developing it over time to take the shape we want.

I'm certainly guilty of this!! I wonder sometimes if I should dust of the lathe and pick up the chisels again... I think the problem I had is that the vision was there but I simply didn't know how to execute, especially these initial stages to set up achieving my vision in the future.

There is an alternative to trying to put some bend into your trunk, which is still going to ultimately lack taper. You could always trunk chop this down to just above your lowest branch and start training this tree from scratch all over again, or even more radically you could chop the main trunk and use what you have kept as a sacrifice/future Jin as the main trunk.

Before seeing this post, I went out and got myself two more Spruce, both at different stages of growth, and thought of perhaps grouping three together to try and hide this one a little. Because the other two are at different heights, I also thought that I might be able to cut this one down a bit to have then all at staggered sizes. So cutting it back is certainly something I'm thinking about.

2 best case scenarios is that I cut it back and maybe group the 3 that I now have; or, use this one as a control or test tree to learn from to better prepare for training the 2 I bought today.


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