First black pine advice please

[Jamie.bonsai]

Hi all, picked this japanese black pine up from bunnings nothing special but a heap of branches to choose from and i thought it was a good buy at 43 bux....

Wanted to know about needle plucking and candle cutting.... eg times and what not

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[Raging Bull]

There are heaps of youtube vids on the subject, though most of them are from o/seas. The Ausbonsai Wiki also has good info on it. It's quite a big subject , so start studying

[robc]

earlier this year i spent quite some time searching for yatsubusa JBP. the best i could find (locally) were about the same size as yours, but with enormous ugly graft scars and were more than double the price! in the end Ausbonsai member Mojo Moyogy came to my rescue. so i think you've scored something nice there!

Raging Bull is correct - there are plenty of you tube vids which are really helpful. Ryan Niels two-flush pine vid is one of the best going round in my opinion- check it out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yn1FiRw2JBo&t=11s

Leong's Book "Pine Bonsai in the Temperate Climate" seems to be highly regarded as a reference for JBP in the sydney area (not sure how Leongs techniques would translate to Adelade, but i'd guess it'd be the same)

Regarding your query about needle plucking and candle cutting: there's a billion different opinions about how and when but if you want to develop some girth in the trunk, dont do either

[shibui]

I believe that Yatsubusa means 'many buds'. This is a form of Black pine that has a denser growth habit than the ordinary type. Might be a smaller growing type?. It requires slightly different technique than standard Black pine due to having so many shoots grow from one place.

I use different techniques on pines depending on the stage of development.
Developing trees: These are the ones you want to get thicker trunks or to grow taller/wider - Allow the shoots to grow for a full year, sometimes 2 then cut right back to the lower needles. New buds will form from any remaining healthy needles to give shoots to continue growing branches etc.
Allowing free growth will thicken the trunk and branches. Pruning back every few years is important because pines are reluctant to bud on bare branches.

Advanced trees: these are close to desired thickness and have basic branches in place - Candle prune all strong candles around mid December. New buds will form around the base of each candle you have cut. Let the new shoots grow until autumn then thin out new shoots leaving only 2 well placed shoots at each spot. Remove any older needles and reduce the needles on new shoots so every shoot now has about the same number of needles.

You can see that yatsubusa already grow lots of new shoots from each growing point. It is important to reduce the number of shoots so there is just 2 at each growing point. Leaving more than 2 will cause those spots to thicken and you'll have inverse taper very quickly. I usually take out the stronger ones and any that are growing in undesirable directions to lave just 2 well placed smaller shoots. You can probably start doing that now on your tree.
Look for areas where the trunk is long with no side branches. That won't look good on bonsai. You can either prune it to remove those areas or wire to put some movement in to the straight bits. Pull off needles to make wiring easier.

What does the graft look like on this one?

[Jamie.bonsai]

Thanks for the replies and i will get some close ups of the graft... im going to pull dow some branches and guy wire them outfor me pics of the tree from more aspects.... will be up in about an hour or so...

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[Jamie.bonsai]

Her are multiple angles of the graft

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[Jamie.bonsai]

Here are a heap more of the growth and branches....

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[shibui]

The graft looks OK. It should heal up reasonably well. Just trim off the dead bits that are sticking out so it can heal over neatly.

[Jamie.bonsai]

Will do thanks mate

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[Jamie.bonsai]

I believe that Yatsubusa means 'many buds'. This is a form of Black pine that has a denser growth habit than the ordinary type. Might be a smaller growing type?. It requires slightly different technique than standard Black pine due to having so many shoots grow from one place.

I use different techniques on pines depending on the stage of development.
Developing trees: These are the ones you want to get thicker trunks or to grow taller/wider - Allow the shoots to grow for a full year, sometimes 2 then cut right back to the lower needles. New buds will form from any remaining healthy needles to give shoots to continue growing branches etc.
Allowing free growth will thicken the trunk and branches. Pruning back every few years is important because pines are reluctant to bud on bare branches.

Advanced trees: these are close to desired thickness and have basic branches in place - Candle prune all strong candles around mid December. New buds will form around the base of each candle you have cut. Let the new shoots grow until autumn then thin out new shoots leaving only 2 well placed shoots at each spot. Remove any older needles and reduce the needles on new shoots so every shoot now has about the same number of needles.

You can see that yatsubusa already grow lots of new shoots from each growing point. It is important to reduce the number of shoots so there is just 2 at each growing point. Leaving more than 2 will cause those spots to thicken and you'll have inverse taper very quickly. I usually take out the stronger ones and any that are growing in undesirable directions to lave just 2 well placed smaller shoots. You can probably start doing that now on your tree.
Look for areas where the trunk is long with no side branches. That won't look good on bonsai. You can either prune it to remove those areas or wire to put some movement in to the straight bits. Pull off needles to make wiring easier.

What does the graft look like on this one?

When would be a good time to remove some branch's and unwanted shoots?

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[shibui]

Remove unwanted shoots any time you see them.
Some people don't like to prune black pines in spring because they believe the tree will 'bleed' sap. I have pruned black pines at all times of the year and have not seen that happen so I would happily prune any branches or shorten the trunk now.

Any new buds that grow at this time of year won't get too big and will usually have smaller needles. If you prune in autumn or winter the buds that grow after will get quite big because they have a whole growing season to grow.

[Jamie.bonsai]

Remove unwanted shoots any time you see them.
Some people don't like to prune black pines in spring because they believe the tree will 'bleed' sap. I have pruned black pines at all times of the year and have not seen that happen so I would happily prune any branches or shorten the trunk now.

Any new buds that grow at this time of year won't get too big and will usually have smaller needles. If you prune in autumn or winter the buds that grow after will get quite big because they have a whole growing season to grow.

Thanks mate.. i will cut a few unwanted branches on the weekend and see how it goes for a few weeks then a couple more

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[adge0001]

Yatsubusa is such a strong JBP variety. You can go hard on these and they come back well.

Good choice for your first JBP.


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[adge0001]

You can cut branches now, but with that graft, I’d leave as much branches on as possible. Thicken up that trunk so the graft starts to minimize in its “obviousness.”

Wire some sacrifice branches out of the way and then create your tree. Let those sacrifice branches go nuts to help that graft.

Don’t repot now. Do it anytime from winter to just before new buds burst at the beginning of spring.


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