Species id: on a super root bound a conifer?? of some kind.?

[Brewster]

Can anyone ID this please...

today i score a old abandoned tree in the back yard at my mother in-law's ..
very little history:
it has been in the same pot for 15 years .. possibly longer ..
belonged to her deceased husband. so could be 20 years she thinks.
totally root/pot bound .. cant even push root hook in to the surface ..feels like all root.

the plan is to try and do something with it...

not sure if it will even come out of the "lump of volcanic rock" that is a pot..
any tips tricks ideas all welcome.. at this point.!


thanks in advance
BB

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[robb63]

Hi Brewster
I think its a chameocyparis, probably a Thuja. Also called book leaf Cyprus.
In my experience they will not shoot from the trunk. However I have managed to get one like yours to back bud.
Problem was it only grew shoots from branch crotches. That means growing new branches from scratch and takes time.
They are difficult trees to shape into bonsai. IMO not really worth too much time or effort
Then again it is "free" and the very least you'll get out of it is some experience
I would soak it well first to get it out of the pot, failing that just smash it and slip pot into good bonsai mix.
cheers

[shibui]

Could be either Thuja or Chamaeocyparis - they are difficult to differentiate. As Rob has said, Never prune these to bare wood. They won't shoot when pruned back past the green leaves but will often produce new shoots from the armpits of branches so if you need to reduce one you will need to feed well and let it grow to get maximum health then cut the green back hard but still leave some so it stays alive. Usually they will make new buds at the base of existing shoots but not always on really old wood.
You could use this one to layer new plants.
You may be able to style an unorthodox bonsai using some of the branches?
Hopefully the pot will allow you to lift the rootball out but if it won't come out easily you can cut around the edge to lift it out then root prune as normal and repot into a suitable container. You can remove 2/3 of the roots without compromising the plant.
I also concur with Robb63 - probably not worth the effort as a potential bonsai but you will learn a lot by trying and I have also been wrong about styling trees before this.

[tgward]

there is some consistent taper in that rh trunk--if the base has some flare perhaps a very tall literati--short jin the major left branch- apex has possibilities -shallowish round pot---could be epic

[SueBee]

To ge that rootbound circle undone will be hard, soaking in Seasol for a few days then slowly teasing the roots free may help. If that doesn't work hit it hard with a stream of water - you will need a good hard stream and lots of water to get that rootball to loosen...then cut the big roots that are circling to allow finer roots to flourish.Good luck.

[Kevin]

Hello Brewster,

I originally thought Thuja too, but unfortunately the cones don't match. So maybe Chamaecyparis.

As for the root ball, what's existing ATM would be a complete mess of wooded material that would take years of work to reduce for potting into a bonsai pot.
Presently the tree aligns itself to a Bunjin style. If you do choose this style i would ground layer the tree and start the root ball from scratch.

As an aside - While looking for an ID i stumbled across the below beauty.

Chamaecyparis.obtusa.jpg

Kevin

[treeman]

It's a Hinoki.

A real challenge to repot without killing it!

[Brewster]

hey everyone....

thanks for the words of wisdom...

i think my 1st port of call is to get it back to some good health...

should i try re-pot now??? . . or wait till the start of spring.???



Cheers
BB

[Brewster]

Hello Brewster,

I originally thought Thuja too, but unfortunately the cones don't match. So maybe Chamaecyparis.

As for the root ball, what's existing ATM would be a complete mess of wooded material that would take years of work to reduce for potting into a bonsai pot.
Presently the tree aligns itself to a Bunjin style. If you do choose this style i would ground layer the tree and start the root ball from scratch.

As an aside - While looking for an ID i stumbled across the below beauty.

Chamaecyparis.obtusa.jpg

Kevin

Hey Kevin,

will this ground layer take when Chamaecyparis dont back bud of hardwood..??

[Kevin]

Hello Brewster,

Sprouting new shoots from hardwood and sprouting new roots from hardwood are completely different sciences.

Your question

will this ground layer take

I have never tried to ground layer a Hinoki Cypress.
But i have successfully grown this species from cuttings, therefore growing new roots from a layer should also work.

Yes you are correct in needing the tree to be in good health first.

Treeman's above comment about repotting would only give me more incentive to ground layer.

Do some research, a member here RayM is an expert with layers, i also found the below link from Bonsai Tonight:
https://bonsaitonight.com/2013/05/07/hinoki-air-layer/

Maybe a more experienced member can add their experiences re: timing, techniques etc.

Good luck and please keep us posted on whatever you do.

Kevin

[MJL]

Intersting ... have patience... there may be a literati-style bonsai in waiting?

Perhaps like this? https://goo.gl/images/Qc3XE3

[Brewster]

Thanks Kevin,

thats a great article ..
i'll bookmark that .. and try it once i can get the vigor back in the tree

cheers
BB

Hello Brewster,

Sprouting new shoots from hardwood and sprouting new roots from hardwood are completely different sciences.

Your question

will this ground layer take

I have never tried to ground layer a Hinoki Cypress.
But i have successfully grown this species from cuttings, therefore growing new roots from a layer should also work.

Yes you are correct in needing the tree to be in good health first.

Treeman's above comment about repotting would only give me more incentive to ground layer.

Do some research, a member here RayM is an expert with layers, i also found the below link from Bonsai Tonight:
https://bonsaitonight.com/2013/05/07/hinoki-air-layer/

Maybe a more experienced member can add their experiences re: timing, techniques etc.

Good luck and please keep us posted on whatever you do.

Kevin

[MJL]

Yes! Thanks Kevin - what a wonderful article. I’ve just been reading related articles while sipping a Sunday morning coffee.https://bonsaitonight.com/2013/05/14/la ... er-part-1/
Excellent stuff! Cheers.

[Brewster]

Hey Bonsai Massive....


update
i re potted this almost 3 weeks ago ....
its still hanging in there.. "so Far" no major signs of doom.... .bit early..!

the rootball was a mess no dirt just wood... with a big air gap in the middle that had rotted away....
i had to smash the pot to get it out...
so i remove all the rotten stuff plus a bit below .. i in affect cut the root ball in 1/2 once the all the gunk was removed...
hand full of roots looked ok...
its now in a nice big tub with fresh Bonsai mix and getting a feed of slow release & some sea juice.. (seasol)


i also took 8-9 cuttings at the same time, a lot have died of but a couple are still going....

now the cold has finally showed up... lets see if it survives. |

will post some pics when there is new growth and its the other side of winter..

cheers
BB

[Webos]

G’day Brewster,
I’m apprenticing in a nursery in Japan and we come across super potbound stuff quite often. Whether potbound or not, we use a sickle shaped mini saw to cut around the entire inner edge of the pot. This area of the football will
Always be taken away during repotting anyway so it doesn’t matter what you cut through when doing this. Cutting through concrete footballs is really hard work, many blisters, but ya just part of the job.

Adam