Tricky Trident

[TimS]

A family friend has passed this tree on to me as they are moving house and don't want to take it with them. It was two trees knotted together originally, hence the shape of the base on it.

Potentially it's best used as a landscape tree, but perhaps ausbonsai people can give me some ideas too. Hare are a few that spring to mind.

1. Clean up the crossing roots, put it in as a garden tree, let it do its thing and then later if it throws a low bud perhaps dig it up and use it at that stage.

2. Try to strike cuttings from it with some of the interesting shaped branches and not worry about using the base at all.

3. Open up the gap in-between the two original tree trunks and try to find a rock to fit in there, cut down to first branch and start over.

4. Accept it will always be quirky with those exposed roots, forget the rock, cut it down hard to the first branch on the RHS in the first photo and see what buds spring from it around that area or lower. Maybe do some really abstract thing with it to figure the base in.

5. Forget bonsai with it totally, forget cuttings too and let it just be a garden tree full stop.

Whole thing

JT1.jpeg

Base

JT2.jpeg

Swelling halfway up

JT3.jpeg

[shibui]

Waste of time trying to put a rock into established roots. You will never get one that looks like it belongs in there or the roots will have to grow a lot to fill in the spaces.
The exposed roots could look OK if you can build a tree on top to match. The fused trunk might just be good with the roots but you will need to start low and build a tree closer to the base.
I have trouble with acer cuttings. Some people grow cuttings but mine either fail to root or die soon after potting up. Seedlings are so much easier. Trident should layer OK though.
Tridents are really good at growing new roots. If you bury the tree to where you want roots and leave it for a couple of years it is likely you will have new surface roots just under the soil surface. Ground layer is even quicker and gives even better roots.
Ground growing will put on a lot of thickness and may cover up some of the problems you now see. The roots will thicken as well as the trunk. They will fuse where they are close together ans should end up as a single solid trunk if it grows enough in the ground. That tangle of roots could end up as a nice base for a tree.
Think carefully before you decide on a trident as a garden tree. They are quite large. Probably too big for most gardens.

[legoman_iac]

Those roots are interesting ... though not so balanced. I don't think they necessarily need to be evenly spread around but I believe there should be a story behind the development of a tree, if you want it to look like something in nature. Then again, if you like the look, just roll with it!

Air layers are fun, and allow you to keep the trunk in tact. Good news is, you have lots of options.

[TimS]

I ended up just cutting it right back down to the first branch, i have more than enough propagation going on at the moment without starting extras so now i just wait and see if i can get some low buds on it.

[TimS]

Had a think about this one and ended up deciding to keep the roots that would normally be a horrendous flaw for the tree and do something a bit more sculptural/ not traditional bonsai.

Chopped the top out of it, took a strong shoot and dropped it agressivly down and flared a few side shoots out too to interact with the trunk line. I will end up having to do some carving too with the huge scar that will be left from taking the entire top off the tree, but i feel this at least starts a direction for the tree to go even if it won't necessarily be classically beautiful.

If i get some budding lower on the straight branch from the top of the twisty trunk i'll cut back to them and rewire this design because there is no scope to move it at all in its current state.

Hopefully with defoliation i can reduce the leaf size but that's a long way down the track. for now just putting in a start point.

tta.jpeg

[MJL]

I think you’re into something now. Something different and exciting actually. Well played! I look forward to seeing this progress.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[melbrackstone]

Some interesting penjing styles can be produced with a hanging branch like yours.

SueRen1.jpg

SueRen2.jpg

SueRen3.jpg

SueRen4.jpg

SueRen5.jpg

SueRen6.jpg

[TimS]

Caution was thrown firmly to the wind about a week ago with this tree.

I'm moving house soon and frankly i can't be arsed lugging the massive and extremely heavy terracotta pot around, so i pulled the tree out of it. I did a pretty heavy root prune of maybe 70% and put it into a spare polystyrene box i had kicking around. I thought it might have a bit of a sulk at having a root prune in late spring/ early summer, but so far it hasn't even batted an eyelid. I think the extreme difference between root mass and foliage mass has helped for sure as there is not much of a demand on the roots coming from the foliage. I raised the roots a bit higher too so i can get an idea of how the neagari style will start to come together.

My foot as size reference for the pot. It was entirely full of roots.

old pot.jpeg

In the poly box

TT repot.jpeg

[Raging Bull]

With more of the roots exposed like that the tree is really starting to look the goods, keep it going.

[TimS]

Wow, 2020 since i last updated on this tree, it comes as no real surprise i guess as i've struggled to bond with it and it may end up being offered for sale in the not too distant future as i don't feel the same attraction towards Trident maples i do to Japanese maples.


But here anyway is the progress i made with my radically dropped branch since 2020. I like the effect it creates, it could probably be sparser however with more definition between layers

TTS23.jpg

[KIRKY]

I really like this one Tim, before your time… Reminds me of the 1962 movie day of the triffids.
Cheers
Kirky

[TimS]

I really like this one Tim, before your time… Reminds me of the 1962 movie day of the triffids.
Cheers
Kirky

Had to google day of the triffids hahah but yep i see the similarities there!

I'm really on the fence with the tree, hence the lack of updates. The trunk is weird for sure and not so much to my taste, but i really like the drop branch and the way it will develop going forward.

[KIRKY]

Well there’s your answer the way it will develop… time
Really like the second last picture that Mel posted as a possible future goal.
Cheers
Kirky

[PeachSlices]

Looks great, Maybe abit of carving to improve the flow of taper. Dare i say the other side may be the front?

if its the roots can always ground layer.

Simon

[alpineart]

Hi tim , I have tried this with tridents but they like to grow up in a matter of days .With my large semi cascades and cascades junipers , cedars and crab apples , I grow them on their side for 30-50 % of the growing time just to aid growth in the right direction and to prevent the tip from dying off and growing another upper apex .
If i forget they let me know by dying at the tales , reminds me I had better trim and tilt mine again .

Dare to be different , I like it .

Cheers Ian