Summer maintenance of JBP with no candles

[Ces]

Hey guys,
I've gone through the threads a bit but the question seems very specific, and hard to find previkus posts, so I thought I'd start a new topic.
My one JBP looks healthy and pushed new, long, green needles throughout spring. But, they just started growing as needles from the bud sites and elongated. They never formed candles.
I'm ready to start refining this pine, and I'm wondering what I should do in place of the normal summer 'decandling'?
Thanks for the help guys.
Ces

[TimIAm]

Any chance you can post a photo? It's hard to guess if your tree is 2 years old or 20. And if it is in the first 5 years of development, without a photo it's difficult to suggest if it is ready for decandling. Just because a tree has put out new Spring growth with summer buds / candles, doesn't necessarily mean you should be decandling.

If it is in the first 5 years of development and you are looking to do the first ever round of decandling or pruning, I suggest you watch these videos from Bonsaify

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-KO4sxZrKs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elri1DTAwX4

One of the big questions with decandling (besides understanding WHY you should be doing it) is where you want and expect the budding to occur. I think the two videos above provide many good examples of explain what is likely to occur when you prune in different spots and why he does it that way.

[shibui]

Unfortunately, there's not a one size fits all answer to most bonsai questions. The answer is usually - it depends. To really answer your question it is necessary to see just what you are working with.
FWIW I've never had a JBP that did not grow candles in one form or another. If the tree has not grown candles then obviously decandling is out of the question. It may even mean the tree is too unhealthy to do anything much but let's see what it looks like before jumping that hurdle.

[Ces]

Hey guys,
Sorry for the late reply. I totally forgot I had asked this question.
Thank you for the tips and video links.
Its a field grown pine that is almost certainly closer to 20 than 5 years old. Probably more like 30 i reckon. I'm pretty sure I've had it at least 10 years. It has produced candles before, several years ago but underwent a number of years of neglect. I have been reinvigorating the tree over the last two years and did some heavy branchwork in the early spring. It has thrown adventitious buds and the new growth is very large and deep green but did not produce from a candle. I'll try and keep a pic up.
Thanks again, guys.
Cheers,
Ces.

[shibui]

It has thrown adventitious buds and the new growth is very large and deep green but did not produce from a candle.

Makes me wonder what your interpretation of 'candle' is in relation to pines. All new shoots grow from what I know as 'candles' so if your tree has new shoots then it has had candles.
Note that when we talk about decandling it's a bit misleading. What we really mean is 'removing all the half grown new spring shoots' but that's obviously not as cool as decandling!

I'll wait for the photos before offering more.

[Ces]

Thanks for the input, Shibui. I tjhink you may be right about my interpretation of candles. This is my only pine, and when I was first working on it in years past the 'candles' were obvious, and I'll be damned if they didnt look like candles! Definitely not that obvious now. I've attached some pictures. I'd love to know what you all think.
Thanks, again.
Cheers, Ces.

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[Ryceman3]

I can see a distinct spot on most of those pics where new terminal growth has formed this growing season.
That growth looks quite weak so I'd say the buds barely elongated before producing a very small number of needles ... which would explain why you didn't notice "candles" as such, although they would have been there. Why the growth was weaker than what you expect/have seen previously could be due to a million things, but from this point you have nothing to gain from decandling now and so I think your best course of action is to focus on sun, water and fertiliser to build strength. It looks to me like there are terminal buds forming again on that new growth, so I would bet that if the tree is back in good, strong health by next spring you will be looking to decandle come December.

[Raniformis]

That old wire dug in pretty deep, like stangulating the phloem deep. Im guessing that would have to run amok on sap flow?

[shibui]

Agree with Ryceman3. There appears to be current season growth at the end of the shoots so there were candles earlier in the year. Maybe not as big as usual so maybe you missed them when they were growing in spring.
I can also see what appears to be emerging buds on the stronger branches. That may be a second flush or might just be buds getting ready for Spring.
Looking at all the wire, tape and previous wire marks, together with your lack of experience with pines, I'm guessing you may have pushed this one a little to hard and it is struggling this season. As mentioned, there's a whole range of ways we can reduce growth in pines so we can only guess what the problem(s) are.
Definitely let it be this Summer. Plenty of water, sun and fertiliser to build up strength for next Spring/ Summer. Leave all the needles. They are needed to harvest solar energy to convert nutrients to plant food and energy. We can start on refinement when it has recovered strength.

[Ces]

Thank you so much everybody.
I really appreciate everyone being generous with their knowledge.
Yep, you're spot on, guys. After 10 years of neglect, I gave it a major restyling in 2024. = tape, confusion, frustration, wire nightmares It'd been a long time since i'd seriously worked on ANY tree, so there is some evidence of ugly craftsmanship there. But I think I also did that type of work at the wrong time (late July I think it was)? This was all following a fairly heavy repot in spring 2023.
I'll put new fert cakes on it and forget about refinement this year. One more question, if you woukd be so kind? Some of the growth is quite gangly. Would it be OK to cut back to the new back buds on these branches in autumn like normal bud selection for this tree?
Thanks again, everone. I appreciate your generosity.
Cheers,
Ces.

[Ryceman3]

The more foliage you leave the quicker the tree will bounce back to full strength. I would be reluctant to cut anything off until then. Providing the buds have access to light/air they should develop along with the rest of the tree and you can cut back once it recovers.
Your tree though, if you really think things have turned around in a couple of months then I guess you could do it.

[Ces]

Thanks, mate. I'll let it recover until next summer.