[WANTED] Allocasuarina Stock?

[FlyBri]

Gday folks!

Some of you may know that my latest family holiday took me to Bali, where I spent a good deal of time at the Bonsai Cafe in Sanur. The trees I saw there were mostly awesome, and they have kindled my interest in Allocasuarina (AKA Casuarina, She Oak) species as Bonsai subjects.

I've seen a few mentions of the genus here, and a search for "Casuarina" netted me some nice results. However, it would appear that there is no way to acquire Allocasuarina apart from wild collection or the purchase of rough (non-Bonsai) nursery stock. Is someone here aware of anybody selling Allocasuarina which has been developed as Bonsai stock?

I currently have 2 "specimen" She Oaks in training, but they are little more than chopped stumps at the moment.

Thanks in advance.

Fly.

[Jon Chown]

Hi Fly, I have also been doing some research into this species and indeed confess to some confusion as to what is the real difference between the Casurina and the Allocasuarina. From my observations many of the better Bonsai that I have seen have been produced from the C. equisetifolia and the C. cunninghamiana.

In respect to your question, which particular veriety are you looking for? It would appear that there are 17 speecies in the Casurina and around 60 in the Allocasuarina species. Can you narrow the field down a little?

Jon

[Steven]

G-day Mr Fly,

I am not aware of anyone selling Casuarina as pre-bonsai in Australia. This is such a shame as they really are a spectacular bonsai specimen. I have said it before and I will say it again...

Casuarina are the Aussie version of the Japanese Black Pine!

I also feel that they are superior in many ways. That is why I have chosen Robert Stevens Casuarina equisetifolia as the feature tree of this site.

We need to encourage people to work with these tree's and more importantly, get bonsai nursery's to start stocking them too.

FYI, Pup has recently put up a nice post on restyling one of his Cas.

Regards,
Steven

[teejay]

FlyBri:...where I spent a good deal of time at the Bonsai Cafe in Sanur.

G'day Fly, funny you should mention the BonsaiCafe 'cos it's that place that got me into bonsai. I was there a few years ago (my Dad owns a house in Bali) and we always went to that place to eat because I insisted after seeing all the trees. I couldn't get them all out of my head!

I was talking to some local friends of the family over there about it and one asked if I grew bonsai, I said no and that I thought it was hard! He replied "Ha! Easy, no hard at all!"

He was wrong. But the lie got me going.

[Pup]

G, day guys. On this subject I am still trying like every body else to get decent stock to work on.
I have been buoyed by the fact. A freind of mine has successfully Air layered a Cunninghamiana. It was quite a large one approx 70mms, he used the ring bark method with sphagnum moss.
As you would a juniper or maple. So next time I am in the native nursery that has landscape size tree's I might be tempted. He has seperated it now we wait to see if it is 100% sucsessful. Steven I would suggest that you try 1or 2 on your property. Pup

[MelaQuin]

Nursery in Dural, NSW, was selling allocasurina, standard nursery stock but about 1 metre tall, a lot had bases of thickness and character. The one in November I got has been reduced to 25 cm and is shooting all over the trunk. This is about as good as you will find in a bonsai nursery stock plant section. You can find them if you keep checking the nurseries.

[FlyBri]

Gday folks!

Sorry it's taken me so long to get back onboard this thread, but it's a hectic time of year...

I have also been doing some research into this species and indeed confess to some confusion as to what is the real difference between the Casurina and the Allocasuarina. From my observations many of the better Bonsai that I have seen have been produced from the C. equisetifolia and the C. cunninghamiana.

In respect to your question, which particular veriety are you looking for? It would appear that there are 17 speecies in the Casurina and around 60 in the Allocasuarina species. Can you narrow the field down a little?

Jon: I too am a little stumped by the classification. I've spent good amount of time on Google, and this is about the best I could do. So, when all else fails, I'm forced to turn to real literature...

In 1982 the family Casuarinaceae was revised by Dr L. Johnson of the National Herbarium of New South Wales, resulting in a family of four genera. The changes included the separation of the genus Casuarina into two: Allocasuarina and Casuarina.

The botanical differences are of a minor nature and perhaps the most readily distinguishable of these is in the body of the samara (fruit) which carries the seed. It is brown or black in Allocasuarina, and grey or silvery in Casuarina.

The general characteristics of Allocasuarina are the same as Casuarina and these are described under Casuarina cunninghamiana (p.108).

- - -
* Ivan Holliday, 'A Field GuideTo Australian Trees', Lansdowne Publishing, 1989 (p.42)

Well, I guess that sort of cleared up a few things... What I have taken from that definition is that I am now chasing both Allocasuarina and Casuarina for Bonsai. (Given the relative similarity of the two genera, perhaps we should agree to just call them She-Oaks. ) So, in answer to your question, I think I'm looking for A. littoralis, A. torulosa, C. cunninghamiana and/or C. equisetifolia.

* * *

I am not aware of anyone selling Casuarina as pre-bonsai in Australia. This is such a shame as they really are a spectacular bonsai specimen. I have said it before and I will say it again...

Casuarina are the Aussie version of the Japanese Black Pine!

I also feel that they are superior in many ways. That is why I have chosen Robert Stevens Casuarina equisetifolia as the feature tree of this site.

We need to encourage people to work with these tree's and more importantly, get bonsai nursery's to start stocking them too.

Gday Steven!

I agree wholeheartedly - from the specimens I've seen both here and abroad, (Allo-)Casuarina is sorely underestimated in Australian Bonsai circles.

* * *

FlyBri:...where I spent a good deal of time at the Bonsai Cafe in Sanur.

G'day Fly, funny you should mention the BonsaiCafe 'cos it's that place that got me into bonsai. I was there a few years ago (my Dad owns a house in Bali) and we always went to that place to eat because I insisted after seeing all the trees. I couldn't get them all out of my head!

Gday TeeJay!

I spent a total of 12 days in various spots around Bali, but could have easily spent all 12 (and more) in Sanur. I think the Bonsai on display there are mostly Pemphis acidula and Adenium obesum, but my faves by far were the (unspecified) Casuarinas. If I get some time, I might re-jig some of my bonsaiTALK photos for a more detailed showing here.

* * *

I have been buoyed by the fact. A freind of mine has successfully Air layered a Cunninghamiana. It was quite a large one approx 70mms, he used the ring bark method with sphagnum moss.

Gday Pup!

That is good news indeed! I'm led to believe that it is also possible to strike rather large She-Oak cuttings - I've been recently experimenting with cuttings as large as 30mm in diameter, with some signs of success so far.

* * *

Nursery in Dural, NSW, was selling allocasurina, standard nursery stock but about 1 metre tall, a lot had bases of thickness and character. The one in November I got has been reduced to 25 cm and is shooting all over the trunk. This is about as good as you will find in a bonsai nursery stock plant section. You can find them if you keep checking the nurseries.

Gday MelaQuin!

For the time being, it looks like the nurseries are the way to go. The problem is that most nurseries which sell stock the size you mention will tend to be large wholesale suppliers to the landscaping industry. Perhaps I should get back into the landscaping business so that I can buy wholesale...

Thanks all, and Happy New Year!

Fly.

[EdwardH]

Hi Fly,

Most nuseries stock C. torulosa and C. cuninnghamiana in their native section. I have purchased both trees at Flower Power a few years ago and both grow well in Sydney.

[Lynette]

A few years back( quite a few), after a trip to Bali, I tried to find equisetifolia, with no luck at all. I even tried a few nurseries in Brisbane when visiting my son.
I now have one, I can't remember if I got I from Ray Nesci or Grant Bowie I think both had some a while back.
I haven't tried cuttings, but seedling of both cuninnghaminiana and torulosa grow very fast expecially if you put them is the ground. The native Nurseries sell them, in Sydney there is one in Engadine and another near Marsden Park and one near Yarrowvile (?) near where Grant use to live. The Forrestery place in the north of Sydney also sells them.
I had a friend who grew them in polly containers and got very good growth rates, about 6cm dia in a year from seedlings.
Soon as I get time I will try a cutting from my equisetifolia and let you know how it goes. IN Sydney it grew very slowly, about 1/8 the rate of cunningham. I grew them both in the ground about 2m apart, in 6 months the cummingham was over the fence hight and the equistifolia was about 20cm.
Since we moved north it has grown much more, but still not at the rate of the other two species I have.
hope this info helps and encourages people to try casurinas. I just found a picture of a very narled almost literati styled one in a book about Australian landscapes. I would like to copy it if I could.
Lynette

[Asus101]

im going to check a few local nursieries here, so if i find anything, ill let others know..

[aaron_tas]

i met a bloke in the launceston group that grew a cuninnghaminiana like a literati black pine and it looks tops

great proportions, great ramification short leaves(branchlets), all in all possibly more impressive than the black pine for literati.

[Brandon]

Not sure if this is the right place to 'rehash' a dead thread but....

For us Perth people, is there any word on where to get good Casuarina pre-bonsai stock lately??

[craigw60]

A few weeks ago i bought tubes of torulosa and litoralis from bushland flora in mt evelyn. they were about 65c each. I bought about 100 so maybe there will be some stock around in the future. I am counting on putting a fare bit of growth on them in the next few years.
Craig

[Kunzea]

Hi Fly
Just a bit more to help distinguish the two genera. Casuarinas drop their cones each year, whereas Allocas hold them on the tree for a long time. This makes collecting seed from Cas a bit more difficult than for Allocas - you have to be there are the right time of year.

Good to read about the air-layering. Could be useful indeed.

Lynette's experience with the C. equisitifolia is interesting. It is basically a tropical species, with the Australian subspecies reaching down into the subtropics. It doesn't surprise me that it grows more slowing as you try to grow it in cooler and cooler climes. Keep moving N Lynette!

By the way, Pemphis acidula is also native to northern Australia. For your next trivia quiz!!
Cheers
K

[Mitchell]

?? Me included, that's 3 people from Sydney that can find them at the local sydney nurseries in the native section.
Ray has them at Dural... I am almost positive. Funny others are having issues...